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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour 'stands back' from transgender war

218 replies

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 08:45

I haven't seen this already posted, apologies if it has been. The Times reports that Labour is 'standing back' from the transgender issue in recognition of the fact its threats to expel members with 'transphobic' views during the last election contributed to a collapse of Labour support in the 'Red Wall'. Meanwhile, an Amnesty International spokeswoman claims that the Conservative proposals amount to a 'hostile environment' for trans people in the UK.

^any such proposals would cause a headache for Sir Keir Starmer after disputes over the intersection of trans rights with feminism overshadowed the Labour leadership election. Sir Keir was the only candidate not to sign a pledge calling on the party to expel members with “transphobic” views. He instead tried to take the heat out of the issue.Last week JK Rowling was criticised by the stars of the Harry Potter films after she used her experience of domestic violence to express concerns about female-only spaces and warn against attempts to “erode ‘woman’ as a political and biological class”.
Labour has committed itself to reform of the Gender Recognition Act and David Lammy, the shadow justice secretary, said: “There’s now a change of view that people ought to be able to self-identify and not over-medicalise.” But he declined to go further, telling the BBC: “We would have to look at the legislation when it comes forward in detail^

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SarahTancredi · 15/06/2020 09:23

They have sone major apologising to do.

They saw the likes of nandy and swinson and butler make utter fools of themselves taking the compete denial of facts to its desired end conclusion , they have their work cut out trying to sound even half credible unless they cant just ignore it and hope everyone forgets.

It's all.on you tube ffs.

rogdmum · 15/06/2020 09:23

Well, on the back of this, I have again written to Keir Starmer to see whether he will now push for an inquiry for the 4000% increase in Tavi referrals, given his complete non answer to me on Mumsnet. Undoubtedly I will be ignored again.

Labour 'stands back' from transgender war
KaronAVyrus · 15/06/2020 09:23

I don’t think that it was just the TRAs who damaged labour but the whole identity politics concept.
It’s generally pushed by middle class students and graduates. It doesn’t have any appeal to the vast majority of the working class who were completely ignored or just insulted if they queried any of this. Labour has lost its way and forgotten why it was created in the first place.

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 09:24

I would be surprised if there is any solid evidence that trans issues were a big factor in the outcome of the general election

No. It was merely one example, one that was amplified in the run up to the election as candidates struggled and squirmed and were unable to define the meaning of simple words. Constituencies that had voted Labour for over a century switched sides. Labour was perceived as a party obsessed with identity politics, with a leader who thought patriotism was a dirty word. Labour had ceased to represent or understand the concerns of its traditional voters. They returned the favour in December. This came as a huge shock to Owen Jones et al because Twitter had announced a landslide victory for Labour. As for lessons learned? Nope. Zero sign of that.

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Gncq · 15/06/2020 09:25

I can't forgive them for signing that pledge saying apparently I'm expelled (if I were actually a member).

I'll never vote for them ever again and that's frankly astonishing seeing as I'll also never vote right wing in my life.

I don't see this as "back tracking" it's just them being a bit quiet on an issue that should be a priority.

Michelleoftheresistance · 15/06/2020 09:27

'Hostile environment for Trans people...'

fgs, it's deciding not to change the law but to keep the status quo. The law currently is not hostile.

It would have been extremely hostile to female people if the proposed changes to the law had been forced through, and I have no illusions that Starmer would have thought twice about it. Labour are misogynist to the core.

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 09:27

@BolloxtoGender

I agree. It's quite incredible.

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TeaAndStrumpets · 15/06/2020 09:28

Labour struggled with antisemitism, I think misogyny is the next thing they fail to tackle. Sorry, I am a pessimist.

RuffleCrow · 15/06/2020 09:29

I know it doesn't seem it but this is actually quite a big leap forward for them. Contrast with the LP under Corbyn. Still not voting for them but interested to see how things progress.

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 09:35

@Michelleoftheresistance

'Hostile environment for Trans people...'

fgs, it's deciding not to change the law but to keep the status quo. The law currently is not hostile.

It would have been extremely hostile to female people if the proposed changes to the law had been forced through, and I have no illusions that Starmer would have thought twice about it. Labour are misogynist to the core.

I agree. So many aspects of so much of the 'progressive' agenda are so riddled with contradictions.
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Floisme · 15/06/2020 09:38

I am desperate to vote Labour but this is like getting a bunch of flowers from a petrol station the day after your birthday with the half price label still on. I agree it's a start and I will stand by and watch, but even I've got a bit more pride than this.

VickyEadieofThigh · 15/06/2020 09:39

Ha ha. Still not voting for them. Not until they know what a woman is.

Nor am I. I suspect they've no idea how the word is spreading that Labour doesn't give a shite about women and girls - I encounter newby GC women every day on various forums.

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 09:40

I am desperate to vote Labour but this is like getting a bunch of flowers from a petrol station the day after your birthday with the half price label still on

floisme

Grin
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forsucksfake · 15/06/2020 09:52

Feckless leadership.

Burying their heads after all the damage they have to done to erode the trust and respect of women.

To win me back, I will need an apology and an unequivocal pledge to protect of women's rights to single-sex spaces and freedom of association.

And that will never happen.

CourtneyLurve · 15/06/2020 09:56

Amnesty is hardly the best authority on human rights these days: www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/06/amnesty-international-has-toxic-working-culture-report-finds

CASCASCAS · 15/06/2020 10:26

Trans women are not men! Jeez

VickyEadieofThigh · 15/06/2020 10:30

Trans women are not men! Jeez

What is a man? What is a woman? Such an authoritative statement as you've made there suggests you have quite clear definitions in mind.

BaronessRadcliffeFemish · 15/06/2020 10:30

Welcome to Mumsnet! Jeez

transdimensional · 15/06/2020 10:31

@BolloxtoGender

It happened during the GE. The pledges were all over Twitter.
I did not know that. I question how many people know that - do ordinary people really use Twitter? Were these pledges by the party leadership or were they individual activists? If it's the latter then the leadership merely standing back from the debate isn't going to be enough. They would have to find some way of getting those people to stop saying those things. But the people saying them could be a tiny number of members, or even a tiny number of non-members claiming to be members or supporters, and it would still get publicity among those who pay attention to Twitter...
LastTrainEast · 15/06/2020 10:37

CASCASCAS you have to be a man to qualify to be a transwoman. Women can't be transwomen.

RuffleCrow · 15/06/2020 10:38

I always read "transwomen are not men!" as being very reactionary and fearful. Men are so intolerant of transwomen and so disgusted by a male embracing femininity that they would love to just shove them out of their spaces altogether.

nonsenceagain · 15/06/2020 10:38

It's going to be interesting though. Labour must know that most people who might vote for them don't care much about this issue. If they bring more attention to it, it will probably alienate those potential voters; if they don't they'll alienate the woke within the party already.

They're going to have to make a call on this and it will have to be based on: a. minimising arguments and divisions; and b. which position loses fewer votes.

Good luck with fence sitting. We'll be watching.

HPFA · 15/06/2020 10:44

The pledges were all over Twitter.

No the pledges normally referred to appeared during the Leadership election. Lisa Nandy and RLB rushed to sign them - I suspect acting in haste without really thinking it through. KS showed a bit more sense and signed a milder version.

My guess is Labour will end up with a version of "transwomen are women" which defines transwomen in a way that doesn't include self-ID. It'll be a fudge and not everyone will like it but it probably reflects the way most people instinctively feel.

forsucksfake · 15/06/2020 10:49

It'll be a fudge and not everyone will like it but it probably reflects the way most people instinctively feel.

Could you explain what you mean?

Binterested · 15/06/2020 10:53

I’d wager next to no one thinks Transwomen are women.