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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour 'stands back' from transgender war

218 replies

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 08:45

I haven't seen this already posted, apologies if it has been. The Times reports that Labour is 'standing back' from the transgender issue in recognition of the fact its threats to expel members with 'transphobic' views during the last election contributed to a collapse of Labour support in the 'Red Wall'. Meanwhile, an Amnesty International spokeswoman claims that the Conservative proposals amount to a 'hostile environment' for trans people in the UK.

^any such proposals would cause a headache for Sir Keir Starmer after disputes over the intersection of trans rights with feminism overshadowed the Labour leadership election. Sir Keir was the only candidate not to sign a pledge calling on the party to expel members with “transphobic” views. He instead tried to take the heat out of the issue.Last week JK Rowling was criticised by the stars of the Harry Potter films after she used her experience of domestic violence to express concerns about female-only spaces and warn against attempts to “erode ‘woman’ as a political and biological class”.
Labour has committed itself to reform of the Gender Recognition Act and David Lammy, the shadow justice secretary, said: “There’s now a change of view that people ought to be able to self-identify and not over-medicalise.” But he declined to go further, telling the BBC: “We would have to look at the legislation when it comes forward in detail^

OP posts:
JoyFreeCake · 15/06/2020 16:04

Glad you got one of the single-sex units Tyro — the atmosphere must be quite different.

RedDogsBeg · 15/06/2020 16:05

Oi Sadiq fixed your statement for you:

Women deserve the safety and dignity of being recognised as their sex.

Any possibility if you standing by and for women, the adult human females ones? Nah, didn't think so you're just another misogynistic bloke ignoring the needs of women whilst you tell them what they must do and accept.

bottle3630 · 15/06/2020 16:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

minipie · 15/06/2020 16:10

However, the world is waking up. I consider this promising

Likewise. Long way to go but it’s a start.

DickKerrLadies · 15/06/2020 16:11

@TyroSaysMeow

Trans women are not men! Jeez

As an actual female woman of the becunted variety, who happens to meet the terms of the descriptor "trans", thank you very much, New Poster, for agreeing that I am not a man. It's ever so validating, when people plop in to champion my right not be kicked out of the woman club just for not liking the feminine fripperies.

Transwomen are still men though.

YY
MaMaLa321 · 15/06/2020 16:13

The thing is though by simply not bleating TWAW from the rooftops, and conspicuously holding back from full commitment, Starmer is IMO sending us a potentially pro-GC signal
KS put his name to a statement saying precisely that. Plus stated it in an interview with Pink News at the same time, just before the Labour Leadership elections. As well as stating his support for Self ID.
He is not an ally to GC women

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 15/06/2020 16:16

It's a start, but there's a lot of mistrust that's built up among women that will need to be addressed before the ones who abandoned Labour over this issue consider going back. Also, what are they going to do about all the other issues that turned off Red Wall voters, like parachuting clueless non-local woke kids into what should have been safe Labour seats and thus rendering them no longer safe Labour seat for the first time in decades? Don't get me wrong, I'll be thrilled to see Labour drop it's support for TRA nonsense if that's really happening, but the rot goes deeper than just that.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 15/06/2020 16:20

Also, given that Amnesty also came out in support of the sex industry they've lost most of their credibility at this point, so my only reaction to their wading in is a massive eyeroll. Clean up your own house before meddling in someone else's, Amnesty.

JoysOfString · 15/06/2020 16:35

Fair enough Mama I was referring to their most recent stance with him as leader, as raised in the OP - but yes he has done that previously.

PronounssheRa · 15/06/2020 16:53

Labour is riddled with misogyny, in particular at local level, I suspect it's one of the reasons the trans agenda took hold so firmly.

Joe Anderson's (Liverpool mayor) behaviour to women who raised concerns about the loss of single sex spaces was the final nail for me

mobile.twitter.com/LiverpoolReSis1/status/1272223455069515778

Labour needs to do more than stand back before I vote for them again

ThePurported · 15/06/2020 16:54

KS put his name to a statement saying precisely that. Plus stated it in an interview with Pink News at the same time, just before the Labour Leadership elections. As well as stating his support for Self ID.
He is not an ally to GC women

That is the uncomfortable truth.

It's a mistake to assume that Starmer is doing/not doing X because he is clever. It's also possible that he doesn't give enough of a fuck to actually look into these issues, and he'll just defer to female colleagues like Lisa let's-put-rapists-in-women's-prisons Nandy. All these assumptions about his understanding of the situation are just that - assumptions. He could be a fervent genderist for all we know.

TyroSaysMeow · 15/06/2020 17:00

It's a mistake to assume that Starmer is doing/not doing X because he is clever. [...] He could be a fervent genderist for all we know.

It's a pretty fair bet that he's got patriarchy-brain, regardless of how clever he is.

An inbuilt cognitive bias in favour of men is pretty standard in our culture; there's no evidence to suggest KS is immune from it.

JoysOfString · 15/06/2020 17:13

I did admit it was an assumption - and yes I'm sure he has patriarchy-brain. But there are still men who are GC despite having the patriarchy imbued in them all their lives.

RedDogsBeg · 15/06/2020 17:18

BovaryX

I've just used this comment from you on another thread, hope you don't mind:

MPs who are petrified of challenging a Twitter mob are unfit to represent anyone. They are unfit to be in any position of power.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 15/06/2020 17:22

It does say something about the viciousness of the Twitter flying monkeys that people who're fine facing a barrage of hostile question in the House of Commons turn tail and run when confronted by the Twitter rage machine.

ThePurported · 15/06/2020 17:27

Many thought that the previous Labour leadership were secretly GC, until Corbyn announced his pronouns and O'Donnell did a MN chat and responded to women's concerns with the TWAW mantra.

JoysOfString · 15/06/2020 17:31

I know...
I'm going to hold out hope though.
FWIW I never thought that about Corbyn - he's so painfully woke he doesn't know what he thinks. Corbyn is a classic wokebro from a priveleged background - Starmer less so.

OvaHere · 15/06/2020 17:50

@ThePurported

Many thought that the previous Labour leadership were secretly GC, until Corbyn announced his pronouns and O'Donnell did a MN chat and responded to women's concerns with the TWAW mantra.
I still don't believe that Corbyn and McDonnell are true believers though.

They did what they thought was politically expedient at the time.

Then the red wall crumbled.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 15/06/2020 17:54

I don't think any men that old are real true believers, though there will be a few who'll claim to be because of, hmm, let's just say specialized sexual interests.

ThePurported · 15/06/2020 18:03

Who knows. I really rated Lisa Nandy and thought she had her head screwed on, and look what happened there...

TyroSaysMeow · 15/06/2020 18:07

I dunno, Kittens, I reckon there's a shitload of men that old who divide the world into real men and other, and are perfectly happy to label the latter category "women".

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 18:20

@RedDogsBeg

BovaryX

I've just used this comment from you on another thread, hope you don't mind:

MPs who are petrified of challenging a Twitter mob are unfit to represent anyone. They are unfit to be in any position of power.

RedDogsBeg

Sure, go ahead! I think this phenomenon of politicians quivering before an unelected mob on Twitter is not only craven, but undemocratic. Who elected Owen Jones et al to dictate policy to timorous politicos?

OP posts:
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 15/06/2020 18:30

True, Tyro, but in terms of the "tranwomen are biologically female because sex don't real" stuff? Not a one, I'm willing to bet. Just a few older blokes going "if TWAW that means I'm not gay".

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 15/06/2020 18:32

I predict that little Owen will be out on his arse once Labour realizes that his smug wokester tone is part of what helped them lose an election.

(Granted this may take a while.)

RedDogsBeg · 15/06/2020 18:34

Thanks BovaryX, my thoughts exactly! I even used craven as wellGrin.

It's the thread about the Times front page re GRA reform if you care to look!