If Daniel and Rupert were honest

[MrsKingfisher]

Would they themselves have an intimate relationship with a trans woman? I mean because as far as they are concerned they are who they say they are trans woman ARE women.

Rupert will never have to worry about his daughter being assaulted, or his wife being uncomfortable in a changing room. These celebrities have absurd amounts of money and their lives don't remotely resemble 99% of lives out there.

I managed to quote the wrong quote! So now my comment makes no sense
Sorry DoYouMind

Would anyone here have sex with a transwoman?

No probs Gncq.

Why should men be the arbiters of what it means to be a woman?

Why should who a man finds attractive be anything to do with the definition of woman?

Why should anyone have to define who or what they find attractive?

So, if a woman A finds herself attracted to an intact transwoman B and it's mutual and they start an intimate PiV relationship, are they both suddenly lesbians and is this same-sex attraction? And has A always been lesbian without realising it or is she as opposite-sex attracted as ever? The more you pursue scenarios, the less likely it seems that TWAW.

Yet it is possible to care about people who we don't find sexually attractive and to see their value as members of society

But this is the whole GC argument: It's possible to care about trans women and see their value as members of society without believing they are actually women, so they should not be accessing women only places, etc.

If you pretend to believe (I don't believe anyone truly believes it) that TW really truly are actual women, that there is no difference between them and natal women (even though there really obviously is) then you should have no problem dating them. Either TWAW or they're not.

Funnily enough 'lesbian' TW don't seem to like dating other 'lesbian' TW either. I wonder why not?

[quote RainbowRoadRose]@TooOldForSims as we don't know them personally, we don't know how they would feel if they found out midway through a date, so I suppose everything we write here is speculation.

That said, that argument doesn't quite hold up because there are plenty of things that a person could find out about a biologically female woman halfway through a date that would make them not want to take things further, but don't disqualify the person from being a woman (i.e: some people may decide personally that they could never date a woman who has had plastic surgery, or who has kids, or who is one of identical twins, or who has a chronic disease). Preferences in who you are intimate with, whether they are reasonable or not, are natural and affect biologically female people as well as trans people.

Yet it is possible to care about people who we don't find sexually attractive and to see their value as members of society.[/quote]
But why would a dick put them off if they got along with them and were otherwise attracted to them?

No one really believes TWAW though, Daniel, Rupert and Emma are all fully aware theres a difference between a transwoman and a natal woman. But its about what the umbrella of 'woman' covers. They dont believe they are women like your or I, leta be honest

Tbh I suspect they would probably say 'yes if I met a transwoman I was attracted to' some waffling about personality and then just miraculously not meet a transwoman they were attracted to.

Harrop said he wouldn't have sex with a trans man, didn't he? He had to back track pretty fast when it was pointed out this made him transphobic. That was funny.

I think OJ had to do some neat verbal shuffling so he didn't have to admit he wouldn't have sex with a trans man, although obviously he wouldn't as he knows that really they're one of those revolting women he hates so much.

I've get your point OP, and the phrase "woke in the streets, terf in the sheets" is one of my favourites, but I don't especially like this line of argument. Mostly because I don't think its quite disingenuous. I believe that TW are men. Does that mean I'd be willing to have a TW as a sexual partner? Probably not - maybe if they were non transitioning and looked like Elijah Wood and were happy for me to call them "he" and describe the relationship as heterosexual. Seems unlikely that if find such a partner, but not impossible. I think most straight women feel the same tbh - most of us would be unwilling to date a TW unless they were in every physical and social way indistinguishable from any other man. TW who have transitioned even a little bit, anything from wearing feminine clothes to having full GRS, are just not attractive to most women. That doesn't invalidate our belief that they're men, it just means that most women aren't attracted to every type of man. I probably wouldn't sleep with a very overweight man, or a man with very strong religious views, or a man with far right political beliefs, and I wouldn't sleep with a man who believes he has something called a "female gender identity". This doesn't stop them all from being types of men. Well, Dan and his type would probably say the same. That they aren't attracted to every kind of woman. Maybe not overweight women, maybe not older women, and maybe not women who have a penis. That isn't inconsistent with having a belief that TW are women, and it certainly isn't proof that TW aren't W. There are a lot of very good, very convincing GC arguments, but I don't think this is one of them.

maybe not women who have a penis

Once again, that makes perfect sense to me, but it is against all trans orthodoxy. Lesbians are told they should have sex with TW 'lesbians' with a penis, otherwise they are hateful genital fetishists.
Surely someone as woke as Daniel isn't one of these hateful genital fetishists?

So, if a woman A finds herself attracted to an intact transwoman B and it's mutual and they start an intimate PiV relationship, are they both suddenly lesbians and is this same-sex attraction? And has A always been lesbian without realising it or is she as opposite-sex attracted as ever? The more you pursue scenarios, the less likely it seems that TWAW.

Exactly. I am Woman A. I could quite easily be a attracted to an intact transwoman. I'm not a lesbian. I've never been a lesbian. I'm completely opposite sex attracted. So if TWAW, where does that leave me? And her?

The mind boggles

DR, RG et al quite clearly instinctively identify TW as men.

If they really believed, then they wouldn't be championing privileges for TW while telling JKR to shut up, because the whole thing would be dismissed as catfighting amongst subgroups of women and neither actor would bother to get involved, except maybe to support "their" woman.

The reason that this is important is because it shows that these men don't really see transwomen as woman and would 'exclude' a transwoman from their dating pool. But at the same time they expect women to accept transwoman as women in their single sex spaces. Robin summed it up with 'I see them as women except for relationship purposes'.

Obviously I don't know if Daniel Radcliffe or Rupert Grint would go in for a relationship with a transwoman. But for straight men, the presence of a penis is a slight turn off....

Can we stop equating clitorises with penises please? Clitorises can't be used as rape weapons; and they don't come with male physiology attached.

If DR and RG aren't attracted to women with penises because they aren't attracted to penises, that's transphobic. Or so the TRA brigade keep telling us.

@NellMangel

It doesn't all boil down to who you find fuckable though?

I completely agree with JK Rowling btw. I just dont like the ultimate test of being a woman being how palatable you are from a man's pov.

Nor do I, but then the flipside is that a lot of the straight female TRAs won't take their ideology as far as their bedrooms either. Same is true of exclusively same sex attracted people, see Owen Jones' hissy fit when asked if he'd give cunnilingus to a transman in a cotton ceiling discussion. It does evidence the level of hypocrisy.

Ugh. I’ve had a discussions like this ‘they are women EXCEPT when....’

They’re either a woman or they’re not.

So they might not be attracted to penises just as they might not be attracted to women with a particularly big clitoris,

Wuh?!

but still see the person whose body type they aren't attracted to as a woman

Ah the old 'I see them as women except for relationship purposes'.

So they can exclude all transwomen from their dating pool on the basis of penis and male body but women can't exclude them from their single sex spaces on the same basis? And they can scold women (and I'm putting that mildly in some cases) for not 'accepting' transwomen in their single sex spaces whilst themselves excluding transwomen?

but still see the person whose body type they aren't attracted to as a woman

The reason that they are not attracted to that particular 'body type' is because that 'body type' is male!