I'm going to write a book: 'Why I'm no longer talking to men about feminism'

[TheEighthHorcrux]

I am so, so, so frustrated and tired of explaining why it's important that sex based spaces and conversations about the lived experiences of women is important.

Got into a debate about JK Rowling today with a close friend of mine. I am so very deeply hurt that despite saying that I believe anyone and everyone deserves kindness and love and acceptance, I was scoffed at by them in sharing my lived experience as a woman.

These experiences centred around:

• childbirth
• sexual assault

I really cannot fathom how someone can blithely dismiss the lived experiences of another person and resolutely ignore the fact that they are asking the same for another group of people.

I'm so angry.

Angry for being laughed at by someone I loved when I dared talk about my experiences (why is this ok to do to women but not men and trans folk?), and angry for being made out to be a bigot in what is becoming a tug of war over who is the most oppressed rather than a discussion of how we can work together.

I am past knowing whether I am articulating myself well enough. I am very angry without knowing where to put the anger. I stand with JK Rowling.

Just a quick update re: the title

"Hi TheEighthHorcrux

Thanks for getting in touch.
We don't tend to edit thread titles so far in as the people who had already contributed would be a bit lost.

Best wishes,
Lily, MNHQ"

@TheEighthHorcrux how odd as normally they do edit thread titles much further along but ah well. It was nice of you to try.

I would love to read this book OP.

Count me in - I’ll buy a copy.

The whole trans thing sends my blood pressure climbing, and is one of the issues that goes round and round my head, getting me more and more upset, when I lie awake with insomnia (every night).

Hopefully anyone who comes along now with a similar viewpoint will see the conversations and understand it has been spoken about.

I am still very much incensed by my interaction with my male friend last night. I still do not know where to put that rage.

The gender/sex discussion has always been a sticking point for me and him. I tend to try and avoid it because of the resulting debate and it's pointlessness. But I could not sit back and let him portray JKR's essay as frothing with hate and using her experiences of abuse and domestic violence as a weapon.

I just can't get on board with it.

I had a male acquaintance try to shut me down over this.

I may have asked him not to use his male privilege to mansplain my lived experience of being a woman.

It didn’t go down well so I asked if he was expecting my female socialisation to force me to defer to him.

He buggered off. I’m still not sorry. But I am so very done with pretending to listen to men spouting horrible misogynistic stuff at me while trying to educate/indoctrinate me. You have my sympathy.

I'm not getting anywhere with a number of women either though, even when they have had children and have suffered DV and more

This has been my frustrating and maddening experience too.

So now, I no longer state my opinions or try to refer to my life history.

Because what women experience, no matter how horrific, pales in comparison to those of men of any persuasion, but especially those who claim to be women. Only they are worthy of compassion.

So now when I talk to "allies" of either sex, I just ask them all basic questions about GI that they inevitably embarrass themselves answering. You can see the light go off in their heads as they realise they are making no sense at all.

And I just nod and make my way through the list of questions.

They will pad their nonsensical answers out with the lies of self-righteousness and compassion: "most vulnerable, most marginalised" and false stats, and always, always tell you about their T friend who has had such a hard life, worse than any woman could ever experience. And they will lie about women raping and abusing and assaulting too.

Pay that no mind: The light has gone off and if they are half-way intelligent, they will begin to question.

And OP, I agree. It is so hurtful and enraging to open up about such personal and painful and uniquely-because-of-our-biology experiences and have them dismissed with the flick of a hand by an arrogantly ignorant, self-righteous and disdainful man.

@Brandaris you said nothing you should regret!

Apparently I was trying to one up trans people in the oppression stakes by talking about the reasons why single sex spaces are important.

Also, in saying that pregnancy and periods etc are important to the experiences of women, I was reducing women down to their genitalia/bodily functions.

All I said was I felt I could empathise with the author's frustration about talking to white people about race because I've tried to talk to men about misogyny and felt a similar frustration... is there really no equivalence there? It seems to me that there is. I just wanted to defend to OP because I really don't think she was literally going to steal the book title and her original post was very raw and heartfelt and I thought accusing her of "mocking" the book was unfair. But clearly it was a problematic thing to say so I apologise for any upset caused.

This black woman found nothing offensive or "mocking" about the play on the title of Ms Eddo-Lodge's book.

I don't quite see what is offensive about the thread title either - WIANLTTWPAR is a fantastic book and there are obvious parallels between self-absorbed white people who make racism all about them and self-absorbed men who make feminism all about them.

In all honesty the title of this thread was quite a flippant, off the cuff way to describe how I was/am feeling

I really do think the concept is worthwhile.

Its is important to reflect that range of women's experiences as they are compounded by race but also social class, age etc. The compounding factors are often neglected and are used to divide us. The more men (and women) the project speaks to, the more impact it could have.

@Brandaris

I had a male acquaintance try to shut me down over this.

I may have asked him not to use his male privilege to mansplain my lived experience of being a woman.

It didn’t go down well so I asked if he was expecting my female socialisation to force me to defer to him.

He buggered off. I’m still not sorry. But I am so very done with pretending to listen to men spouting horrible misogynistic stuff at me while trying to educate/indoctrinate me. You have my sympathy.

Beautiful. Don’t be sorry. It was perfect.