I'm going to write a book: 'Why I'm no longer talking to men about feminism'

[TheEighthHorcrux]

I am so, so, so frustrated and tired of explaining why it's important that sex based spaces and conversations about the lived experiences of women is important.

Got into a debate about JK Rowling today with a close friend of mine. I am so very deeply hurt that despite saying that I believe anyone and everyone deserves kindness and love and acceptance, I was scoffed at by them in sharing my lived experience as a woman.

These experiences centred around:

• childbirth
• sexual assault

I really cannot fathom how someone can blithely dismiss the lived experiences of another person and resolutely ignore the fact that they are asking the same for another group of people.

I'm so angry.

Angry for being laughed at by someone I loved when I dared talk about my experiences (why is this ok to do to women but not men and trans folk?), and angry for being made out to be a bigot in what is becoming a tug of war over who is the most oppressed rather than a discussion of how we can work together.

I am past knowing whether I am articulating myself well enough. I am very angry without knowing where to put the anger. I stand with JK Rowling.

I would absolutely buy it.

So would I.

Are you purposely mocking Reni Eddo-lodge's book? Write a book if you want but it's pretty dickish to be taking her concept as a book title.... Maybe try being a bit more original.

I'm in. Keep speaking out.

A chapter on data, statistics and how these are being compromised.

Why on earth would drawing parallels between the situations be "mocking" the original book?

Personally as I was read WINLTTWPAR I felt that despite being white I could empathise because I had tried to talk to men about mysogyny...

I believe that's all OP is saying by using the book title in this way.

Is this for men to read? What are you trying to accomplish?

I'm not mocking anything

I used it because I feel it conveys how I feel...

Talking to men about feminism feels futile and exhausting.

I'd love to contribute!

Unfortunately it's not just men. I got so upset when a close friend of mine (female and lesbian) described fgm as a 'side issue' in relation to trans rights. I have never felt so clearly and so viscerally the way our whole culture is steeped in misogyny.

And I highly recommend the book Why I'm no longer talking about race to white people'. To all white people. It really resonated with a lot of the behaviour and attitudes I've witnessed as a teacher of black teenagers.

@0v9c99f9g9d939d9f9g9h8h

If you read my OP, you'll see no mentions of this 'book' beyond the title.

Instead it's more of a rant about how angry I am at my lived experiences as a woman being dismissed by men because either they cannot fathom the extent of it or they simply don't care.

Or to be told that in mentioning experiences of abuse and trauma when talking about them in relation to the importance of sex specific spaces, I am weaponising them.

I want to hear the voices of other women on this issue. I want them to be heard too. For any book, real or imagined, giving a valid platform to women to allow their experiences to be heard by men and anyone else would be my end goal.

But that wasn't really the main focus of the actual thread.

@ValancyRedfern

That is just awful.

It breaks my heart that these issues are being side lined and any attempt to centre them is met with screams of TERF.

Adult human females matter. Our biology matters and the discrimination and abuse we face as a result of that biology.

FGM is abhorrent. How can anyone argue that abuse and trauma isn't being inflicted on girls and women because of their sex? How can anyone argue that centring that isn't important?

Odd thread title then. I didn't realise it was to ignored. Enjoy your rant.

I hear you, OP.

Talking to men about feminism feels futile and exhausting

Yes it is. So is talking to white people about race.

I understand the desire to do something similar - its a great concept and potentially useful in the same way Invisible Women is a useful resource. I would however either come up with a new title concept or get the buy in/credit the black women who coined it.

@C8H10N4O2

I see your point.

In all honesty the title of this thread was quite a flippant, off the cuff way to describe how I was/am feeling.

But I do see your point, especially as the notion has captured peoples attentions.

OP, I am sorry that you have been laughed at by a man, simply for expressing your reasonable, logical views about this current madness which is negatively affecting girls and women everywhere.
By laughing, he has revealed a side of him which is very unpleasant, it has revealed that he has zero empathy towards women.

@TheEighthHorcrux

I'm not mocking anything

I used it because I feel it conveys how I feel...

Talking to men about feminism feels futile and exhausting.

Just seems a bit coincidental that it mimics the exact title of "Why I'm no longer speaking to white people about race" which is a particularly popular book at the moment due to the current BLM movment....

If you are serious about writing a book, that title is a poor choice because of the already existing book I have mentioned. It wouldn't come across well at all as it would seem like you are just copying that authors idea

Personally as I was read WINLTTWPAR I felt that despite being white I could empathise because I had tried to talk to men about mysogyny...

So you took a serious issue such as racism and white privaledge and somehow not only made it about you but also added in a bit of whataboutery??? The concept was for white people to actually educate themselves on their own white privaledge and WHY is hard to talk to them about race. Guess you just proved the point of her title.

@GreytExpectations

Please see my reply below.

If you want to have a rant then fine, but that doesn't really make for good material as a book. Why don't you consider using the book to actually educate people?

I saw your reply, still don't quite understand why you felt that using that same format of title is a good idea. It's clearly coined from her book, or are you claiming you just came up with it?

Instead it's more of a rant about how angry I am at my lived experiences as a woman being dismissed by men because either they cannot fathom the extent of it or they simply don't care

We tell ourselves that the men in our lives ( friends, partners, relatives ) don’t get it because they don’t know or understand what we have gone through.

But then when we tell them, we discover that it’s not that they don’t know. It’s that they don’t care.

That’s what really hurts. When we open up our heart and lives to then and they respond “ So fucking what? You are just a woman, what did you expect? Men have it worse so you need to centre them and STFU” .

Remember that the worst thing about Male violence is that it makes men ie them look bad. No wonder they don’t want to hear about it.

@GreytExpectations

Are you being deliberately obtuse or have I not communicated it clearly enough?

Yes, I based the title of this thread on the book. Never once suggested it was an original idea. Because the frustration I felt in trying to talk to someone who does not want to listen or learn or change fit the sentiment.

It was flippant, as I have said. And in creating the original thread had no intention of physically writing a book.

Further on, I then acknowledged that the title wouldn't be appropriate. So I've conceded on that front.

The thread was a boiling over of my exasperation and hurt over what I had experienced. Apologies for the title, I'll ask Mumsnet to change it as I don't feel it really illustrates what I intended my thread to be about.

2/10 for the derailing attempt BTW

I'm so tired of men telling me what a woman is.

From "celebrities" like Radcliffe and Redmayne, to "woke" male friends, to my lovely cousin who just now, to my utter despair, posted Mermaids response to JKR on Facebook, encouraging us to read it and donate to them. I remember him as a kid - he was the most unstereotypical boy you could imagine, and if he'd been a child now they'd have had him on puberty blockers before you could say "TWAW." Had they done so, it's highly unlikely he'd have grown up to be the happily married father of two he is today.

I'm also so angry with myself for not being brave enough to stand up and tell them all this. I'm an actor, it would be absolute career suicide for me. I'm not famous, I have no clout or power, I'm just a jobbing actor. If I open up about my views, I won't even be that anymore.

But I'm still so sick of it.