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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DD is gender non conforming

112 replies

Rushhomeroad · 13/06/2020 12:46

DD is 9 and has been gender non conforming since about 3. When I say gender non conforming, I mean she prefers to look like a boy ('male' clothes, short hair, 'male' activities and games). She has been mistaken for a boy all her life and she's not particularly bothered. I've asked if she wants me to correct people but generally she doesn't.
I've never been bothered by what she chooses to wear or play, as long as she's happy, so am I (DH is the same). She saw a few children's programs about children changing sex when she was about 7 and asked if she could become a boy. We talked about it and I explained that there was no magic wand that would give her a penis - the children in the documentaries still had female genitals in their pants. I explained what they would have to go through to become a different sex (surgery, medicine etc). I also told her she was born perfect, and that I loved her just the way she is without needing surgery or medicine to feel accepted. The relief she felt was very obvious - immediate reduction in tears and tantrums, more cuddles and happier child. We're all happy... apart from the increasing number of times she is confronted by strangers. She rarely goes to clubs or classes if she doesn't know anyone, following being cornered by 6 older girls in a girls toilet, telling her she had to leave as she was a boy. She's had similar at holiday clubs. Her swimming lessons had group changing and three families moved class as they didn't want their daughters changing with a boy. So what do I do if society isn't ready to embrace gender non conformity? DD has even used men's public toilets when out with her dad rather than go in the women's alone. So how do we make women's safe spaces safe for girls/women who are non conforming? I even laughed at one parent and asked that if I was trying to pass my son off as a girl, I would have put a lot more effort into it!!
So she doesn't need a third space, she is using facilities intended for her sex, but still isn't safe.
Suggestions?

OP posts:
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peachgreen · 16/06/2020 13:37

Transactivism is a men’s sexual rights movement

Being transgender has nothing to do with sexuality. That statement completely erases the experiences of hundreds of thousands of trans men.

No one is policing public toilets

According to this thread they are. But if they're not, fantastic. Trans women and trans men can continue to use the space they feel is most appropriate as they have been doing for decades.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 16/06/2020 13:46

Being transgender has nothing to do with sexuality. That statement completely erases the experiences of hundreds of thousands of trans men.

Why don’t you actually watch some of the videos I just posted?

Or you could try this one, Sheila Jeffreys, explaining exactly why trans activism is shit for female people (I deliberately chose that phrasing to include transmen)

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 16/06/2020 13:47

According to this thread they are.

This thread is about children changing for swimming.

BaronessBrighterThanYou · 16/06/2020 14:00

It's like the menz don't read anything or bother to look at vids.

(I liked that MB one.)

peachgreen · 16/06/2020 14:00

This thread is about children changing for swimming.

It also mentions toilets on several occasions but regardless, I was using "public toilets" as a stand in for "public women's spaces" which I'm sure you knew. So again, if you're saying GC women aren't policing public women's spaces then trans women can continue to use them which is great.

Why don’t you actually watch some of the videos I just posted?

No thank you. I have seen enough Magdalen Burns content to know that my views will never align with anyone who shares her content. I wouldn't ask you to watch "transactavist" videos (to use your phrasing) and I won't watch anti-trans propaganda.

I have seen several of the videos from detransitioned women before. I'm desperately sorry that they've had that experience. Thankfully the majority of trans people don't regret their transition.

peachgreen · 16/06/2020 14:00

It's like the menz don't read anything or bother to look at vids.

Hang on, am I a man now? Even though I have a vagina? I thought you lot were all about biology. How confusing.

peachgreen · 16/06/2020 14:03

This is all getting off the topic of my point though which was that trans people and their allies are not policing women's spaces. And you've assured me GC feminists aren't either. So that's great. Hopefully we can all unite to ensure gender non-conforming people like OP's daughter are allowed to use women's spaces unchallenged.

Tootletum · 16/06/2020 14:07

It's all so fuckdd up. I had a tomboy phase when I was about 8 or 9 too. People just said oh, you're a tomboy at the moment, do you like climbing trees? Cheesy gender clichés maybe, but nobody ever said I was somehow in the wrong body or actually a boy or any of that shit. I found adolescence really hard, I am so horrified at the thought that of I was 14 now, I'd probably have been told I should go to GIDS. By the time I was 16 I was all about dresses and dancing and make-up....

Devlesko · 16/06/2020 14:11

I was like this, a right tomboy until about 13, chances are she'll grow out of it.
Their heads are filled with so much shit if you don't monitor what they watch and what you tell them yourself.
I just usually say yes, dear that's nice. tell me again when you're 21.
It usually gets a laugh.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 16/06/2020 14:13

if you're saying GC women aren't policing public women's spaces then trans women can continue to use them which is great.

Single sex spaces and services are for people of a single sex to use. The clue is in the name.

I wouldn't ask you to watch "transactavist" videos (to use your phrasing) and I won't watch anti-trans propaganda.

Pro women’s rights/feminist isn’t automatically anti trans, It’s rather telling that you believe it is though. Bit like the men who say all feminists are man-haters, without even considering that we have sons, husbands, brothers, male partners, male friends etc.

I happily read/watch the other side ALL the time. It’s how I know what I’m objecting to, as opposed to simply say, joining a tribe and nodding along with groupthink.

I’ve even read Julia Serrano. Well, some of it. Not got much tolerance for PoMo wankery these days, now that I’ve shaken off the shackles of my Goldsmiths education.

4 of the videos I linked are women who used to identify as transmen. Why won’t you listen to their words? Or is transactivism like Scientology, and anyone that leaves is automatically designated a ‘suppressive person’?

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 16/06/2020 14:16

I spent most of my middle-childhood being mistaken for a boy (until the dreaded boobs) - can't say that I ever had any issues in toilets or changing rooms back then though, because once I or my mum said I was a girl no-one had any reason to disbelieve me.

Now of course, lots of males are saying they're female, and people are a lot more worried about it.

This is entirely the fault of the people lying about their sex to access opposite sex facilities.

bishopgiggles · 16/06/2020 15:51

This is all getting off the topic of my point though which was that trans people and their allies are not policing women's spaces. And you've assured me GC feminists aren't either. So that's great.

That's right, you seemed to imagine an argument that no-one was making. As I said, it's helpful if you quote the specific posts you're referring to avoid talking at cross purposes like this, and also that specific poster then has a chance to clarify their meaning. This is hard when you talk as if everyone in the thread has posted the same thing!

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