r4 right now

[user8558]

Did I just hear on r4 a man say that a 12 girl had consensual sex?

Is anyone listening to this - did I mishear?

What programme OP? Will find in BBC sounds.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000jx41

It’s this, about 7 min in. You have to listen to it in context. It’s described as rape, and consensual is used (unwisely) to indicate the the girl agreed to have sex initially.

He’s John Sutherland, ex Chief Superintendent with the Met, on problems in policing today.

I've been listening to the programme all week and it's been well worth a listen to. A mis-step of language needs to be seen in the context of 5 very good 15 minute programmes. Take for example the programme about domestic violence on Tuesday:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jvxv

I have only managed to hear bits of this, it’s been on every morning and I had intended to listen to it in Sounds, as I heard a promising start to one of the episodes on Domestic Abuse.

X post nauticant

He "mis-stepped" sure, but language is important and he isn't some bloke down the pub, he is ex Chief Superintendent with the Met.

Maybe I am super sensitive and looking for a fight, but he also seemed to imply the police were damned whatever they did, since they were blamed for not believing rape victims and then blamed for believing "Nick" who made up the whole sex conspiracy with "credible and true" lies. Only the rape victims were women, and Nick... Well. Just sayin'.

I need to listen again to the episode you have referred to. Did you catch the statistics bit - rape figures only include women between the ages of 16 - 59. I don’t know if this was a specific report rather than crime stats for that year, so need to check. But outside that demographic how are those crimes recorded. Obviously I can understand lower than age of consent could be approached differently but if you are raped at aged 60+, do older women not matter?

I was surprised as the context generally was very positive.

But as pp said, I'm not with the distinction he draws where the first rape is not framed as such.

The police believing that children can consent to sex is a serious serious problem.

I haven't listened to the whole programme yet, but this is horrifying

'In 2013 the Home Office, MoJ and ONS published an overview of patterns of sexual offending in England and Wales. It estimated that every year, 78000 women and girls between the ages of 16 and 59 were the victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault be penetration. An astonishing number, BUT that doesn't include anyone under the age of 16 or over the age of 59. It doesn't inculde anyone living in non residential household settings and it doesn't include anyone in Scotland or Northern Ireland. And it covers just three specific categories of sexual offending, leaving a whole host of other horrors unaccounted for.'

78000 in a year. That is horrific. That works out as 213 sexuall assaults every single day.

**I've just looked at the latest figures on the ONS here:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/sexualoffencesinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017

They are much, much worse. And yet people wonder why women need single sex spaces at times when they are vulnerable.