Well, I've just come out as GC on Facebook...

[SapphireSeptember]

I watched this video this evening, and decided I couldn't keep quiet anymore. So I shared it on Facebook, along with the caption 'women are women, women's rights are human rights,' and thanked JK Rowling for standing up for women.

A male friend of mine replied with 'transwomen are women' said it was a TERF-y video and asked if I'd posted it accidentally. Guess he's no loss as a friend.

I don't do facebook but I am on twitter under my real name. I wish we'd all be open about this. It's ridiculous that women feel they have to keep silent about this bizarre anti-woman attack that no one in real life gives any credence to, because a) people might be upset (well you're upset here, their possible feelings don't outweigh yours) and b) people might shout (then shout back). If they're supposed to be your friends, don't worry about losing them - let them worry about losing you. Then there are stories of workplaces and pronoun meetings where I guarantee everyone is sitting there thinking 'wtf is this shite' but no one of the grown adults opens their gob! Let's change the narrative. We can own this. We exist and we are entitled to our rights.

I know it might seem relatively minor, but I think what really drove home the sexism and misogyny in DR's statement was the way he felt he had to apologise FOR her to fans of HER books? It was just so incredibly patronising..... "It's okay, the little woman didn't know what she was talking about and didn't mean to hurt you." SHE is the author. He is just a hired actor. The very clear sense that he is better than her, that as the actor (male) he is the one in charge was almost chilling for me.

I don't tend to post GC stuff but I do like a lot of it on SM and will occasionally post something. I do worry about it.

My BF is still working her way through a lot of this stuff but her instinct is to be inclusive and supportive of trans women and she lives in another country where they're at a different point. It's awkward because we both respect each other and listen to each other but in her country, there haven't been the sorts of cases (or at least, not publicly) where men claim to be women in order to abuse actual women. And it's also very traditional so she's very conscious of the massive backlash transpeople experience. But I keep hoping by flagging up a few things on my SM that she'll read and engage with them. Because to be honest, I felt the same way she did a few years ago. It took me a long time, and a lot of reading, to truly understand.

I feel for Jonathan Ross too because nephew, 24, claims that if he met a woman at a bar and she turned out to be a transwoman with a penis he'd still happily have sex with her. So he doesn't understand why it's such a big deal. I can't work out if he's living in a dream world or is really just bi.

I think the fact that women are being cowed and frightened into silence is very sinister.
I'm neither in or out on Facebook. I wouldn't post a video but I generally post either frivolously or on certain other topics close to my heart. I do however post comment and support where friends post something.
I guess I am openly GC as this is nothing new, it's just a realisation that this label fits my thought too.
I'd say most of my female friends (same age) feel the same. My DD and some of her friends similarly but are already checking how much they share with some others - especially those who are NB in fear of offending them.
The more I see the more apparent it is that misogyny is at the heart of genderism.

What’s sad is that women with real power, like Sturgeon, Mairi Black etc are actually leading the charge on this . It’s awful.

I’m confused because this all kicked off with her being annoyed at the ‘people who have periods’ thing which is obviously referring to the fact trans men have periods too. So I’m confused why people (and Daniel Radcliffe) keep reiterating the ‘trans women are women’ line rather than trans men are men?

Because the real group upset by women talking about periods as part of womanhood is not TM (notice how TM are practically invisible, never mentioned), it's TW.

This is all about the rights of males over womanhood and the controlling of females to achieve it. Look at who in the movement has power, and who doesn't. Who is always the focus and demanding to be centred, and who isn't. Then look at the biological sexes involved. This is all about the compelled pretence of not knowing, while everyone, in particular the political transactivist lobby, bases almost everything on knowing exactly what sex everyone is, and which sex must always be privileged and which must be subordinated. Everything they do is on the basis of recognised sex.

Whenever I see the "Trans are the most oppressed minority ever" line I've taken up asking them for the data to support this assertion. I've yet to have a response. But if I ever do I'll point them to this particular gem.
twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1270632633052127232

Bluebellbike

I'm retired but I was a teacher.

Is it possible to ask your dd a hypothetical question.

If a student told me they thought they were trans where is the best place to get unbiased information about all options?

I have experience growing up as a female, I also thought I wanted to be a boy, until I realised I could still do 'boy' things and be a girl. I probably have autism.

As someone who has transitioned, surely she is more experienced than I am both about dismorphia and about the options open.

Somewhere / someone who can give the student the 'warts and all' of the options.

How would I find a, for want of a better word, a mentor?

Obviously don't ask if this would put a strain on your relationship in any way, I do not want to upset anyone for a hypothetical.

also then realsied that in a Roller Derby, women put them selves out to include trans women. I saw on on discussion group, a woman said she did not want to feel a penis on her leg/back/body when playing. She said she’s happy to play with TW but could they wear maybe a jock strap or something to cover it. This poor woman was shouted down stating it’s not the fault of the TW she has a penis and as Roller Derby is such a contact sport, maybe she was in the wrong sport. It really was awful as no one dared to stick up for her.

Wow. That's truly awful. No concern for women at all. And I know from experience that males can use that kind of situation to press up against women like that deliberately.

I remember a journalist writing an article about Roller Derby for a magazine, a few years ago now, and it was from the perspective of women who weren't altogether comfortable playing against males. The editor basically completely rewrote the article changing all the contentious bits so it made no sense, and sent a copy back to the author with red lines through where she'd changed things, saying that she could have just edited it but felt the author needed to have a "learning experience" I think the author withdrew it and published it online.

I think one of the difficulties around all of this subject is that unless you have direct experience and are up to speed the learning curve is just enormous. I consider myself well read and embrace shades of grey and a persons right to choose. I am however horrified by the aggression and hate perpetrated by activists which seems far removed from the dignified struggle of most trans people to overcome prejudice and practical challenges. For those not aware of all the hate and the shutting down any opinion or voice that is not in total support of the activists, saying you are GC is often interpreted as anti-trans. Oppression in any form is abhorrent and I don’t understand moderate people who condone the haters and seem fearful of all of this. Is it possible to be over woke?

sashh That was a brilliant piece and I thank you, because you put into words what so many women are concerned about.

BTW, did the work brigade rectify their mistake regarding using gender instead of sex?

Ugh, the roller derby thing. First of all the fact that it is such a high contact sport makes it a Mouncey situation and inherently unsafe. Secondly, signing up to play in a women's sports league should not come with the expectation of random frottage.

So I came across this after searching for somewhere online to gain information on both sides of the argument.
I’ve been on Mumsnet for quite a while, but have name changed just in case.

I feel very strongly that being a woman is more than what my body does, and raising two daughters I want them to have their own safe spaces.
I watched the video from the OP and it was very moving, and I was 100% with her, up until the part where she began to talk about teenage girls being ‘mutilated’ in the states.

I’ve watched quite a few documentaries on the trans journey, for girls and some boys, and it seems like a long and arduous process for them. One where they have a lot of psychological evaluation first, then are given hormones to stop them developing, and finally they are given appropriate surgery.
I doubt their parents are pushing them to get their genitals changed and breasts removed.
I feel mutilation, being such a strong and negative word, will not do her that many favours.

I’m not sure what I’m here for, I think education more than anything as I feel I cannot openly discuss this with friends/colleagues for fear of being ostracised.
Even my own husband was shocked when I said in a conversation that unless a man who transitions into a woman has the whole process completed (removal of male genitalia) then they absolutely shouldn’t be admitted to women’s prisons. He claimed I was being transphobic, I stated that wasn’t the case I do not feel anything negative about the trans community, but why should one prisoner have the fear of God put into them by having to share a cell with a ‘self-identified woman’ who could easily overpower and rape them?
I feel more towards once they have had all aspects of reassignment completed, then they should be allowed (judged on an individual basis) into women safe spaces such a toilets/girl guides/changing rooms/prisons etc.

Please feel free to tell me why that line of thinking is right or wrong, where do people stand on that matter? I’m dying to have this conversation with someone who isn’t going to blast me for having a certain view.

Oh, and DR jumping in on something that doesn’t affect him in any way is deeply frustrating. It looks like he just wants more people to like him.
I’d be much more interested in what Emma Watson, somebody else who knows JKR and has been a part of her world all these years, thinks. After all she is strongly for feminism, so surely she should be for women being protected.

I also nailed my colours to the mast with this video on FB yesterday. Got positive responses from those I knew were GC, but also a male friend who I know has a current wife, 1 ex wife, at least 1 daughter and grandkids. He told me that as he neither knew, nor cared about the "debate", neither should I. I should let it go, and as long as they were nice, be nice back. I was gob smacked. I did ask what the boundaries / definition of "nice" was, and why, as a man, he thought that giving away women's rights was his job, to which he responded "ok". And what was worse than the frustration and indignation of his indifference was my genuine fear of reactions. I don't know who I'm disappointed at most; me or him.

I’d be much more interested in what Emma Watson, somebody else who knows JKR and has been a part of her world all these years, thinks. After all she is strongly for feminism, so surely she should be for women being protected.

She’s a hypocrite, pretending to care about women, by calling herself a feminist, but then treating women as transphobic for not believing TWAW.

Emma Watson would be ripped to shreds if she said anything GC.

Tell him you thought he was more progressive than that. Sexist stereotypes are not so rigid they actually change your biology. Boys and men can wear dresses, girls and women can work in construction, get over it. You’re disappointed he is so Victorian in his ideas.

(Gender is a Victorian concept to describe sexist stereotypes. Being British we didn’t like saying sex to used gender instead, but gender is actually a load of Victorian sexist bollocks).

Considering that Paris Lees almost made her cry during that interview they did I really don't think anyone should be expecting anything from Watson, or indeed putting any pressure on her.

I feel sorry for Emma Watson tbh.

Twitter spats are a poor proxy for the real argument that should be happening- the detailed one in Parliament!

@fascinated

I feel sorry for Emma Watson tbh.

I don’t have one ounce of sympathy for a rich privileged young woman who is happy to sell out women, in order to keep men happy.

Would he sleep with a trans woman?

In one way I also feel sorry for all the HP actors. There's no way they knew as nine/ten year old what they would be signing up to for life, and it just MUST mess you up being that famous, that young and then forever.

But they are adults now and responsible for their own behaviour. It wouldn't kill them to realise how privileged they all were and to try and see things from other points of view.

Hmm what a shame, admittedly I haven’t really looked too hard into her campaigns and feeling on TWAW so could have had a google myself (pure laziness and lack of sleep, apologies!)
I think hoping for something from her, and pressuring are two different things. With DR hopping on the bandwagon, I was wondering if his views were shared by his peers, not that they’d say anything that would get themselves into trouble I imagine.

The rules of misogyny

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.
2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.
5th rule of misogyny: WATM! Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.
7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.
10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.
11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.

12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.
13th rule of misogyny: Women are not oppressed! Rape and catcalling and objectification are all compliments, not oppression.

14th rule of misogyny: Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

I’ve just read the trans activists bible.

AlwaysLearning, I hope you won't get blasted. We've all been learning as we go here, and Posie is a controversial figure because she absolutely shoots from the hip and is not diplomatic. She knows mothers of girls who have been sucked in to the trans movement, who have been powerless to help as their daughters are endlessly affirmed as male, their other issues not addressed, and ended up estranged as encouraging parental alienation is very much a thing in Transactivism. I am mutual friends with some, and as a fellow mother, whose daughter also travelled a way down that road before resisting, I understand the passion with which Posie speaks.

Mutilation is not comfortable language, but I'm not sure why anyone would think a medically unnecessary double mastectomy on a teenager who was struggling with mental health and body image should be sanitized by comfortable terms. When you find out what they do to the girls who think that a pretend penis would make them feel better it's even more disturbing.

We all have our focus points in this - mine are the transing of girls, the conversion therapy of coercing lesbians to accept men dressed up as progressive inclusion, and men in women's hospital or rape provision.
But there is plenty more. It can be overwhelming,and no one is expected to be in lockstep conformity. We are not a religious cult, you don't have to sign pledges or belief statements. I guarantee that if you keep reading, keep an open mind, you will shift position a few times on some of the topics. I hope it is always towards what is best for women and girls collectively, because that's very much our focus here.