Well, I've just come out as GC on Facebook...

[SapphireSeptember]

I watched this video this evening, and decided I couldn't keep quiet anymore. So I shared it on Facebook, along with the caption 'women are women, women's rights are human rights,' and thanked JK Rowling for standing up for women.

A male friend of mine replied with 'transwomen are women' said it was a TERF-y video and asked if I'd posted it accidentally. Guess he's no loss as a friend.

Dumbledore, the most toxic thing about the whole toxic mess is the either/or situation set up between trans rights and women's rights.

It's not either/or. Not. Not, not, not, not, not.

It's both/and. We all have the same rights. That's the essence of a right. Anything that has to exclude some people to work is not a right. It's a privilege. That's how you can tell them apart!

So there is absolutely nothing unsupportive telling your trans students you want them to be able to live their lives in a way that works for them. And you want the same thing for women. We're all in this together.

The people who want to erase women aren't trans rights activists. They're trans privilege activists. Enough.

It's an interesting one, the rights part.
There's that old meme that doesn't seem to be trotted out so much now about rights not being pie - that we can all have rights, and that it's not like one set of people having them means others can't.

But that IS the case.

If transwomen want the "right" (or privilege) to access all women only spaces, and be accepted as "women" - then that automatically removes the rights of women to have female-only spaces. It's impossible to have both - they are mutually exclusive "rights".

THIS is what we are fighting against - and this is what the woke fools do not seem able to comprehend. They are ready to throw all vulnerable women under the bus for the sake of a few willy wavers who are throwing their toys out the pram and going "wah wah wah - we want you all to validate us as WOMEN".

There was an interesting thing that happened during lockdown - some transwomen seemed unable to understand who they were, because they couldn't go out and "performance woman", so they had lost their external validation and didn't know who they were any more. Interesting, hey.

I'm also pretty fucking sure right now that if women were in the shitty position we were less than a hundred years ago (so, having 12+ children, always pregnant, endless cleaning and cooking, no household help or appliances, no vote, caring for multiple parents etc etc), that we wouldn't have 1000s of middle aged men desperately clamouring to be recognised as women.

Yes of course some poor people may have always had dysphoria, especially autistic or gay men who didn't fit it.

But the current wave of older men "transitioning" is so often driven by this kinky mastubatory fantasy of being a serialised schoolgirl. It is creepy as absolute fuck to watch them try to wear our skin.

Well said, sashh

I’m confused because this all kicked off with her being annoyed at the ‘people who have periods’ thing which is obviously referring to the fact trans men have periods too. So I’m confused why people (and Daniel Radcliffe) keep reiterating the ‘trans women are women’ line rather than trans men are men? The only ‘attack’ really was on trans men as they are ‘people who menstrate’ who don’t identify as women so she essentially said they are still women.

Have I missed something?

I think the men in particular were on the warpath and ready to scream abuse at her the moment she said anything.

So they read it as an attack: "if she is saying that people with periods are women, and I don't have periods, she is saying I am not a woman".

Rather than "this comment wasn't actually about me was it".

I was going to post something in support of JKR on Facebook yesterday, but when I logged in I was faced with one of my oldest friends spouting in support of DR. I love her, I can't have some online fight with her when we're 100s of miles apart and I can't speak to her face to face. So disappointed, but I don't have the energy or the will for that row right now.

Have I missed something?

The fact that none of the is logical. That it's always about the actual men.

And let me see, I was going to pick out specific rules, but I think it's most of them.

The rules of misogyny

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

5th rule of misogyny: WATM! Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.

7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.

8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.
10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.
11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.

12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.
13th rule of misogyny: Women are not oppressed! Rape and catcalling and objectification are all compliments, not oppression.

14th rule of misogyny: Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

KJ is right, the unnecessary lifelong medicalisation of children is abusive. I have nothing to lose. No excuse other than liking my friends and hating conflict. I need to speak out and it is scary.

I unfriended people on the back of their criticism of jk/support of dr. Closer friends I might have engaged with but it just didn't seem worth it. I don't have the headspace right now

So I jumped in the deep end and shared this on facebook, where unlike Twitter I am not anonymous. But if a woman can get so much abuse for just stating only women menstruate, I can’t keep quiet.

I will let you know the fallout.

Eagerly awaiting a definition of "woman" from Katy that includes women and transwomen but excludes men and transmen. I've been waiting for this since I first saw the question posed 2 years ago, and I know people were asking it many years before that, so probs best not to hold my breath...

Good for you OP. Women are women!

I post occasionally on this subject on Facebook. Most of my friends stay silent but I have a few supporters who "get it" - often gay men and women, I have to say. My female friends who are very much into sport are also vocal on the subject, thank goodness.

I wouldn't post the PP video on there as I'm not sure it helps the cause much and have had enough of people filming themselves crying . I am firmly on PP's side of course, no question about it, 100%, but I couldn't watch it through.

I have zero time or respect for men abusing gc women. They have no skin in the game, it's not their rights being eroded. Women abusing gc women is trickier, and unfathomable to me.

The thing that concerns me the most in all of this, is the welfare of the children who are recieving treatment that will have immense health implications throughout their lives, so much of which is irreversible.

It feels like being right is more important than doing the right thing. And that scares me when you are talking about the medical well being of a child.

A couple of people have mentioned writing to MP's. Are there any templates anywhere?

I'm keen to get involved.

I’m the opposite. Out and proud on Facebook and I’m bloody annoyed that very few people respond. This means

a) people have hidden my posts or I’m not that interesting generally
b) they disagree and don’t want to pick s fight or
c) they agree and don’t want to declare it.

It’s a shame, because I’m itching to get it all out there.

I now get no comments or reactions which is weird. Only hope that people are reading at least.

.

You are so brave. I daren't come out on Facebook (I've even name changed for this post), as it would cause way too much controversy for me, I would lose my hobby which is Roller Derby as it's the most trans centric sport there is. There are a few women (mostly top level players) stating that it makes no difference at all, but it DOES!! It really does especially at the lower end of the game and privately many women agree but would never ever come out publicly saying that.

When I started playing around 7 years ago, I was really proud of the inclusive nature of the game and loved it. And I have many trans friends who are lovely, and funny and kind and amazing and I love them. But then Pips Bunce happened, and then Alex Drummond, then Lily Madigan, Jessica Yaniv, Danielle Muscato, all got me thinking ‘something isn’t right here’, and the more I looked into it, the more I realised actually if I was in America and my daughters had to race against Cece Telford or Andrea Yearwood or Jess Eastwood, I‘d have a massive issue with it. Then the Girl Guides, and I realsied that if a trans girl and my 14 year old daughter were put in a tent together and something happened (whether either party instigated it), my first question to the leaders would be ‘how was that defensible?’

I also then realsied that in a Roller Derby, women put them selves out to include trans women. I saw on on discussion group, a woman said she did not want to feel a penis on her leg/back/body when playing. She said she’s happy to play with TW but could they wear maybe a jock strap or something to cover it. This poor woman was shouted down stating it’s not the fault of the TW she has a penis and as Roller Derby is such a contact sport, maybe she was in the wrong sport. It really was awful as no one dared to stick up for her.

I love the game and find it so empowering for girls and women, to play a cool, contact sport, and in the main, that's what it is, so I’m not quite ready to leave yet, (and want it to be on my terms) but I find the community so toxic, so I’m afraid you’ve got my post. I’m a coward.

Well done OP. I posted the exact same video on FB. Don't let the idiots get you down - I love engaging in a good 'discussion' with them on Twitter and FB
I have every sympathy with those who feel they can't speak out. I work in the NHS, but thankfully our household isn't totally dependent on my income and I'm simply not bothered/young enough to want to advance into management.

The thing is it's now impossible to post even one aspect such as "I believe women are, and have historically been, oppressed due to having female bodies" without literally everyone deciding that you said something different and arguing with that instead.
It's thanks to Twitter and the culture of exaggerated outrage that you can't actually discuss this properly, choosing your words to reflect what you mean without someone telling you what you ACTUALLY mean.

See even other threads on mn - there was one about people who'd died before their time (e.g. healthy people in their 30s) and there was a chorus of posts saying OH SO YOU'RE SAYING THE DEATHS OF OLD PEOPLE AREN'T SAD.

Honest, good-faith debate is a rare rare thing, especially on social media.

Ask if Transmen are men? and if so, can they inherit titles? Become RC priests? Be impervious to rape and pregnancy? thought not.

"the difference between an adjective that modifies a noun, tall woman and Black woman for example, and a compound word which changes the meaning of the noun entirely, Seahorses are not horses, hot dogs are not dogs, trans women are not women."

Brilliant and succinct.

I'm GC but cannot mention it on FB as one of my adult DC is transgender(full hormonal and surgical transition) and my other adult DC is "non binary" and very woke re. TWAW to the point that I cannot mention anything on the subject. I would immediately be labelled Transphobic which is ridiculous considering I supported my DC through their 9 year transition to become a happy, fulfilled independent person who is making a success of their life and as far as I am concerned was right to transition. I love them both dearly but have to keep my thoughts to myself as I don't need the stress of the alternative.