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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Well, I've just come out as GC on Facebook...

233 replies

SapphireSeptember · 10/06/2020 00:15

I watched this video this evening, and decided I couldn't keep quiet anymore. So I shared it on Facebook, along with the caption 'women are women, women's rights are human rights,' and thanked JK Rowling for standing up for women.

A male friend of mine replied with 'transwomen are women' said it was a TERF-y video and asked if I'd posted it accidentally. Angry Guess he's no loss as a friend.

OP posts:
YgritteSnow · 10/06/2020 01:23

I'm fully out as GC on my FB, but luckily have at least twenty friends on there who also are so they dive in with their amazing insight and knowledge to squash any TW are W nonsense. There's enough of them to stop me from being piled on and to show others that I am not alone in thinking as I do. We've even had some conversions.

ImStillBreathingButBarely2 · 10/06/2020 01:29

I was very tempted to post something about how woman means adult human female. But didn't have the guts.

TehBewilderness · 10/06/2020 01:43

TWAW only fools those who don't know the difference between an adjective that modifies a noun, tall woman and Black woman for example, and a compound word which changes the meaning of the noun entirely, Seahorses are not horses, hot dogs are not dogs, trans women are not women.

PamDenick · 10/06/2020 01:47

I’ve said it on other threads but I’ll say it again on here.
If DR wants to stand up for dignity of women, perhaps he can donate to Plan International or Wateraid who support safe clean toilets for women and girls.
So when a young girl finds herself menstruating and needs a safe space, or when a post-delivery woman needs to cope with her lochea, or when a woman who has delivered a baby has urge or stress incontinence, or when a menopausal woman needs to cope with gushing, she can do so in somewhere safe, private and hygienic.
If he’s such an expert on women’s bodies and the need for human dignity he would know all that, surely?

Blackdoggotmytonguestill · 10/06/2020 02:03

I did post on a feminist fitness page about how let down I felt that Caster Semenya had been allowed to race as a male with DSD, as I had vociferously supported Caster for years, believing Caster was a female who was subject to abuse for not being sufficiently feminine. To find out Caster had known for years that they were male with a DSD and had actively fought to stay competing against women was like a punch in the gut.
Anyhoo. Turns out it wasn’t a feminist page after all. I was instantly banned and blocked. Have never even been able to view the page since.
(Yes I know trans isn’t intersex. But if you aren’t centring men in your lives... women, know your place.)
I can’t out myself on fb. I would be sacked and would no longer be welcome as a girl guide leader. Because I believe in biology and want to preserve the rights of women and girls. Irony is not dead.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 10/06/2020 02:19

I'm edging into exposing myself on FB - but I have friends with trans children, or who themselves have trans children, so I have to be careful because they are obviously on the other side of the argument. I don't want to upset these friends so I don't post anything overtly GC on my own wall.

But I am commenting on other people's posts and my GC credentials are showing now. I'm also in the LGB Alliance group on FB, because I DO stand with them, and I hate how especially lesbians are being told they are transphobic if they do not accept "ladydick" or that TWAW. HomoSEXuality - the clue is in the name - it's not homoGENDERality, but that's what the TRAs are trying to make everyone believe.

Women are women.
Transwomen are transwomen with male bodies, however modified.
Transmen are transmen with female bodies, however modified.
Sex is observed at birth, not assigned UNLESS you happen to be in the tiny minority of babies born with indeterminate genitalia, known as "intersex" or Disorders of Sex Development (DSD), of which there are several types - and many intersex people have asked that they be left out of this transactivism stuff.
"People who menstruate" have female bodies. Transmen may still menstruate unless they have radical surgery (and it IS radical - it's called that when everything is removed, same as it is for women who are having a radical hysterectomy for medical reasons).

The logical fallacy has been applied to JKR's latest tweet firestorm - she said there is a name for people who menstruate [i.e. women].
She didn't say ALL women menstruate, as they don't. Menstruation doesn't define women per se - but only women can menstruate.
Logical fallacy is turning an argument on its head and expecting it to mean the same thing - it doesn't. Or taking 2 out of 3 terms in a pair of statements and linking them incorrectly.

This is standard practice in TRA speak - when women started to be concerned that SOME men would claim trans status in order to be better able to abuse females, TRAs then claimed that we were saying that ALL TW are abusers. Nonsense. Logical fallacy applied in the name of transphobia.

Logical fallacy in action:
Some men are abusers.
Some men are transwomen.
Therefore all transwomen are abusers. CRAP!

And they know there is no logic there, which is why they just shout louder and louder that everyone who disagrees with them is a "terf" and should be punched/raped/burnt/killed.

Soubriquet · 10/06/2020 02:28

I lost a friend over the weekend too by reposting JK Rowlings comments

She wasn’t impressed when I said that trans women were NOT women but trans women

I was a little sad as we had been friends for years but fuck her. One day, this will all be over and I want to be able to look my daughter in the eye and said “I helped”

CheerfuIPotato · 10/06/2020 02:29

I’ve had a quite large falling out with a FB (as opposed to RL) friend... it’s left me feeling a bit out of sorts if I’m honest. She’s a lovely person and I know her opinions come from a place of kindness but jeez she lost her shit ... 🤔

HarryHarry · 10/06/2020 02:31

How funny - I did the same today too and I was actually shaking from nerves! It was in response to my friend writing Fuck Terfs about JK Rowling and everyone cheering her on for it. I just couldn’t stay silent. I need to try to understand what they think is so wrong with what she said. They all just responded with stuff like “Trans rights are human rights” which I would have thought everybody can agree on anyway?

Soubriquet · 10/06/2020 02:37

@Katypyee

Trans women ARE women!
No they really aren’t

They can have gender reassignment, go on hormone therapy, grow some boobs even shave down their Adam’s apple and they stil will only be trans women

They have the XY gene which amazingly is NOT the same as women..who have the XX gene

AMCoffeePMWine · 10/06/2020 02:37

I really respect this. And would like to post similar. But I have a question.

I have a couple of really, really lovely gay friends. One of them has MH problems, and is very vulnerable. Do you think posting along these lines would be upsetting for a typical gay person? I want to word things in a way that does less harm...argh hate how that makes me sound, but hope it makes sense.

CheerfuIPotato · 10/06/2020 02:42

The person who lost her shit at me is gay. Be careful. Not sure if she misunderstood what I was saying and thought I was being homophobic as well as “transphobic” but in hindsight I’d have left it. Although I’m a bit pissed off as her remarks popped up on MY timeline so I commented which I assumed was the point of Facebook...

Babysharkdoodoodood · 10/06/2020 02:43

I've done it on Facebook and Twitter. Work for police. I'll probably be outed, but I don't actually give a shit. I'm in the union and I'm prepared to shout it from the rooftops.
Totally fucked off with it all tbh.

Babysharkdoodoodood · 10/06/2020 02:49

Posted too soon.

I posted something like if you're bleeding from your genitalia and you're not a woman then you better get to a doctor quick, as there's something wrong.

Seems to have gone under the radar so far.

DamnYankee · 10/06/2020 02:55

Always happy to meet a rational person, face-to-face or online!

Ravenclawgirl · 10/06/2020 03:00

Oh thank god. I thought it was only me.

Babysharkdoodoodood · 10/06/2020 03:05

Let's face it. There's a hell of a lot of us in the workforce. They can't sack every gc woman who 'comes out'.

I'm prepared to be a martyr if it comes down to it.

My bloody stupid SIL is blasting about transphobes apparently. She's blocked me so DH lets me know what she's ranting about. Might send her some blue hair dye for Xmas. Grin

ProfessorSillyStuff · 10/06/2020 03:09

I think I found my people
grabs gin and a pew
I can't talk about this on Facebook. My trans niece is so sensitive, and I don't want her to think I don't support her! I really hope people will start to accept there is a difference between sex and gender. Biologically, but also the lived conditioning of a female childhood, growing up with whatever hormone balance.
"Trans woman" shouldn't feel so insulting to trans women. It is part of their lived experience and describes accurately their journey. Why not accept it as a badge of honour?
Just because women need women only facilities and provisions, doesn't stop us also having women and trans women events and services where it's appropriate!

Oldestchild90s · 10/06/2020 03:22

Ffs.. was really hoping you meant Gemma Collins 😂😂😂

Alittleshortforaspacepooper · 10/06/2020 03:28

"...asked if I'd posted it accidentally"

In fairness this sounds the sort of thing that a MN user would advise someone to say if they disagreed with something that was said.

Oh, did you post this by accident? Did you mean to be so rude? Confused

BeijingBikini · 10/06/2020 03:30

Omg, I thought you'd come out as Gemma Collins

Goosefoot · 10/06/2020 03:30

I've made comments occasionally that are GC on other people's pots but typically ones that were not people I am close to.

I've always hesitated on posting on my more controversial political/social ideas on FB. I know I have some family members and people I know through organisations i belong to who just would not get it at all, and I feel like on FB it would just degenerate into a shit show. And these are people I love or need to have a working relationship with.

TehBewilderness · 10/06/2020 03:59

It's amazing how the name calling and raging is considered entirely justified by a woman politely speaking her opinion with regard to her life experience.
4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.

sashh · 10/06/2020 04:15

I've not done face book but I have managed to express things 1-1.

I was a t a meeting where we were looking at some information and it said the organisation might loot at different data, broken down by ... and gender.

I said it would be sex and I was met with, "Well some people when they are born..." I'm able to take a case from my previous working life that a patient may be addressed as Miss but when I'm performing lung function tests that person still has male lungs and putting something else into the computer would give false results which could have a serious impact on that person's health.

The 'Trans women are women' phrase is so dangerous, I hate it. It harms many people:

Trans people need to access health care, a doctor or medical professional taking a medical history needs to be bale to ask about medication / hormones / surgery. A while ago Stonewall criticised a Dr for asking a teenage trans woman about the hormones they were taking.

Trans women have a life story, part of that was life as a male, denying that was ever part of someone's life stops them telling their story, they may choose not to tell, but they should be able to tell it if they want.

Anyone who is not sure who they are, I'm thinking mainly adolescents, if they are not sure if they are straight, gay, trans, a pink sparkly unicorn they should be able to access information facts, both about their current physiology and that of people who have transitioned or are partially transitioned or who chose not to go down the route of hormones and/or surgery. It needs to be discussed as fact that you cannot change your body to a female one, the surgery is plastic surgery, it will give you the appearance of being a woman but you will never have a vagina, if you have the plastic surgery that creates something that looks like a vagina you are going to need to clean it daily, you will also have recurring and painful sores due to the 'vagina' being made of skin.

The option of counselling or not transitioning is not being discussed, it's an individual thing but transition is not for everyone, counselling to accept your body as it is can help but cannot be discussed if TWAW.

Women, if trans women are women then what does woman mean? I have a motorbike licence, I wear mostly black, rarely a skirt and never makeup. I'm still a woman. I still don't have the muscle power of a man, I will be at a physical disadvantage to a trans woman in a race or a fight.

We have fought for the right to vote, be paid the same but to have protection under the law in certain situations, we lose that with TWAW.

Society in general, the statistics on crime, particularly violent crime are being skewed by reporting crimes by men as being by women.

If you assume TWAW then you are ignoring transvestites and others with a fetish who may or may not want to continue or to stop.

With Covid it appears some people are more susceptible based on ethnicity or blood group. If it was trans women who were being most effective then could scientists research he reasons for that?

Medical professionals, need to be able to ask questions in order to give appropriate treatment, screening for sex based disease needs to continue after transition, trans women need to have prostate exams, trans men with a cervix need to have smear tests.

Which brings us back to how 'Trans women are women' harms trans women.

Melia100 · 10/06/2020 06:35

A friend posted a pro JKR article on FB. Literally all I said to support her was, it's horrible that she is getting so many threats of violence, that's not OK', and some person I have never met before, have no idea who she is, started talking about the hill of womanhood, lol, and how transwomen deserve it even more than she does. People are flipping bizarre.