Sorry to ask for this, photo/meme help

[Gncq]

Ok, so Facebook argument.

I'm confronted by a typical "where do you think these transwomen should pee? The men's??"
Obviously the picture is load of beautiful, very photoshopped and glamorous transwomen who would obviously look silly "in the men's".

I would like to reply A) it's not about toilets. Personally there should be womens spaces, men's spaces, and mixed space for everyone and anyone, women's should be for women only, but toilets aren't really the issue.

B) With a sort of "I raise you, where should these transwomen pee?" With a compilation pic of all the known aggressive non-passing chancers like "call me ma'am", JY in the loos, Karen White etc expecting to use the women's.

I've seen one out there loads of times. Can't create my own right now.

Anyone here got one handy?

TIA

I have seen one on Twitter, but I can't recall who tweeted it. You could probably link to Trans Crime UK, though it's not the same:

transcrimeuk.com/

This isn't quite right either, but I'm putting it here as a marker for future reference. It's a set of photos of men who have spied on women in women's toilets (some of them claiming to be trans women, but most not):

twitter.com/tibby17/status/1267756458638290944/photo/1

Hi thanks for replying, yeah the crime and tibby17 one isn't quite what I was thinking of but something like that.

Bump? X

My stock answer is that transsexuals who pass as women are not the issue (I know, but I don't want to argue nuance with idiots) because they won't be challenged. The issue is 'transgender' men who do not convincingly present as female and aren't really trying to.

I tend to think conversations about sports, prisons and refuges are more productive.

Katie Dowaltowski and the young girl in Morrisons toilets.

Who is more important, the child or the man who was housed in a women's refuge prior to his trial?

So they are saying that people who look like women are at risk in mixed sex toilets? Who from?

Could you turn it around to say that if all transwomen are allowed to use the women’s loos, not just the few that pass really amazingly but the 80% with their tackle in tact who still look like they are men to a greater or lesser degree, then where do they suggest the women who now won’t be able to use the women’s loos should go? (For religious reasons, or because they have been abused or they don’t want to etc etc). Because if they are proposing actions that will stop certain groups from being able to use the ladies then where do they propose they go or at are they proposing that they can no longer go to the loo when out?

If the answer comes down to tough, they just just suck it up then why does that argument not work in the other direction too?

All women's, and even more so, girls' comfort, privacy, dignity and safety are sufficient on their own for not having to use facilities alongside men and boys. No special groups or reasons should override or obscure that. It is a civilised and agreeable arrangement that works well for men too. I suspect they also are happy with it and wouldn't want women piling into their space. We already make additional provision in many places for 'accessible' facilities for people who need them and what is wrong with that?

Alternatively, what about a pic of Fionne Orlander in the men's?

mobile.twitter.com/FionneOrlander/status/1196512801545752576

@Gncq

This one?

@Abitofalark I agree with you completely - but sometimes if one gets confronted by a simplistic Facebook etc post that has —conveniently— reduced the argument down to some transwomen that do look like women and if she doesn’t find the meme she wanted to post back in response or needs additional follow up for people who see the pretty pictures and just think be kind without getting the bigger picture, it’s another tool for the op to use to get others reading the posts to think about the situation in a way that they haven’t done so previously. And hopefully that is then ènough to start a conversation that leads to the point of being able to say that all women get to choose and so on.

Transgenderists tried a "Do I look like I belong here" campaign last year or the year before, dressing up in school girl garb and taking selfies in the men's loo. None of the men did more than give them the side eye so it worked the opposite to what they hoped for.

The simple answer to the query is yes. Drag performers and transgenders must use the appropriate toilet for their sex.
Costumes are beside the point.

There’s always this list:

mobile.twitter.com/historywoman/status/1191453438825181186

It’s about prisons, but some of these men will be out already or in the next 10 years or so, just in time to take advantage of Stonewall’s toilet rules if they get their way.

Thanks everyone!
Datun's is probably the closest
Yeah I can do something with that list too 👍

wibdib, Fair point. At least we agree fundamentally about the end goal and yes, sometimes one particular aspect or another could be useful to mention in context. My worry would be about inadvertently weakening our own position and that we have to stake our ground and hold our ground and not be diverted from the central point.

Datun's is a powerful one.

"where do you think these transwomen should pee? The men's??"

It has nothing to do with women. Men need to sort this out. It’s their problem.

Old Crone - thanks for the pic! Brilliant!

This.

A photo of Karen White and the question 'which prison should they be housed in?'

"where do you think these transwomen should pee?"

In the urinal.