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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Changes to NHS gender dysphoria website page re puberty blockers

87 replies

rogdmum · 03/06/2020 19:20

Am hoping this means the NHS is waking up ...

twitter.com/bayswatersg/status/1268227291970224131?s=21

Text from tweets:

“ The NHS website has updated its info on gender dysphoria & puberty blockers:

Old version: "The effects of treatment with GnRH analogues are considered to be fully reversible so treatment can usually be stopped at any time after a discussion between you, your child & your MDT” >>

New version: "Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria.

Although the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the… >>

...psychological effects may be.
It's also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children's bones.”

Website here: www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

OP posts:
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/06/2020 09:27

What does it have to do with adult males?

NotBadConsidering · 04/06/2020 09:42

It’s bonkers.

mobile.twitter.com/SerenThomas_/status/1268452614791991298

Posting accurate information about medications given to children is now transphobic.Hmm

And people still aren’t convinced the allegations that Mumsnet is transphobic are vexatious bullshit.

littlbrowndog · 04/06/2020 09:52

Yes keep it secret. Don’t give accurate information

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/06/2020 10:22

Reported on by James Kirkup:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-nhs-has-quietly-changed-its-trans-guidance-to-reflect-reality/amp?__twitter_impression=true

"To some, the first question that occurs here is: why has it taken the NHS so long to say these things?

There are other questions too. Some are about some relatively minor points of process: why has the NHS so significantly changed its main publication on hormone treatment for children without any announcement or fanfare? There is nothing on that page to reveal the change beyond a footnote that the page was revised on May 28 and giving no details. (The only way to read the old text is via the excellent Wayback Machine.)

But some of the questions arising from that change are rather bigger. Given that the NHS now says that hormone therapy for gender-variant children has unknown long-term effects on the physical and mental health of those children, why is the NHS still using such treatments on children?

And what are the children and parents who were reassured by those earlier NHS words supposed to think now that the same service that issued those treatments is now admitting it doesn’t know what their long-term effects will be?"

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/06/2020 10:28

Tara Hewitt of Teli is tweeting that the updated information makes adult men (aka trans women) working in the NHS, feel unsafe

And why should children and their parents be denied access to vital information in order to make Tara and Tara's mates feel "safe"?

This is a babystep, but an important one.

SarahTancredi · 04/06/2020 10:35

They dont care about the kids or they eoyod want accurate information in order for them and their families to make decisions. Given they are trying to get self ID through so they dont have to take many medications whatsoever with many of the prominent figures having been older transitioners so never even took blockers ,they seem.awfully invested in putting kids on a path they cant come back from. And they cant even speak from.experience from.blockers.

Mermoose · 04/06/2020 10:40

Kind of related - Jesse Singal has a good article in Unherd about the chilling effect on scientists exploring this issue. A paper was retracted by a neuroscience journal after pressure from trans campaigners because it posited an alternative theory about the cause of gender dysphoria.

unherd.com/2020/06/eneuro/

SarahTancredi · 04/06/2020 10:40

Would

Stupid possessed phone

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/06/2020 10:50

Thanks for the link, Mermoose, off to read that now!

rogdmum · 04/06/2020 10:56

Amazing so many TRAs who push for an “informed consent” model rather than gatekeeping don’t actually believe in the “informed” part. Who’d have thunk?

OP posts:
happydappy2 · 04/06/2020 11:36

Thank you to James for covering this

BillyCotton · 04/06/2020 11:36

I have just read James Kirkup's excellent article in the Spectator about the very quiet introduction of this change to the NHS advice website. It does not give one a great deal of confidence in the evidence base they have been using which has knock on effects on the integrity of way they choose which information to present.
However, did this site previously feature a first hand account from a parent which was also quietly dropped?

anotherFOIrequester · 04/06/2020 11:43

Every school/young person and NHS trans toolkit/policy now has to be withdrawn as incorrect surely?

popehilarious · 04/06/2020 12:23

That Jesse Singal article is great. This sort of thing must be happening all the time - I'm sure we only see a fraction of it on the Twitter outrage machine.

Mermoose · 04/06/2020 12:32

popehilarious Yeah, Singal is very good on this stuff. You've probably read his piece on Kenneth Zucker who lost his job because he believed dysphoric kids needed therapy first & foremost.
www.thecut.com/2016/02/fight-over-trans-kids-got-a-researcher-fired.html
The treatment of Zucker, Gliske, Michael Bailey (Alice Dreger talks about the smear campaign against Bailey in Galileo's Middle Finger) and others explains how such shoddily-evidenced and dubious treatment for gender dysphoria has managed to be adopted around the world. The usual checks and balances aren't working here.

nauticant · 04/06/2020 12:41

I wonder whether this change will be useful for Keira Bell and her case.

SarahTancredi · 04/06/2020 12:48

I wonder whether this change will be useful for Keira Bell and her case

Wouldnt they just say theres nothing to review now it's been changed meaning theres no public announcement/official recognition and they can keep it all on the quiet?

OldCrone · 04/06/2020 13:23

Given they are trying to get self ID through so they dont have to take many medications whatsoever with many of the prominent figures having been older transitioners so never even took blockers ,they seem.awfully invested in putting kids on a path they cant come back from.

The idea of 'trans kids' is important to TRAs in order to win over the public. I used to post a link to a video on youtube when this was mentioned on here where it was explained quite clearly, but it's been taken down now, perhaps because they realised that pointing out their strategy was actually damaging to their cause.

Miranda Yardley transcribed some of this before it was taken down.

To understand why the focus has moved onto children, look to the YouTube discussion between TransYouth Family Allies executive director Kim Pearson and transgender activist Autumn Sandeen, who states:

“I’ve always said there are two groups that are going to make change in transgender legislation and the “gender identity and expression” related language in legislation. It’s going to be trans youth because … they demystify it and take the sex right out of the trans experience.”

Pearson responds with:

“Right. And it’s hard to say no to kids, and the needs of kids and “keeping kids safe”. And you know, “being respected in schools” and things like that. It’s really hard for people to say no to that.”

TRAs need a constant stream of children identifying as trans, so that they can point to these children and say they were just like that as children, and that no trans people are motivated by a sexual fetish (because that is obviously not what motivates the children). People are also unlikely to criticise children, and instead feel sympathetic towards them and concern about their confusion. For this strategy to work, these children need to be medicated whilst they are still children, because otherwise the vast majority of them will naturally desist once they have been through puberty, and blow a huge hole in the 'not a sexual fetish' narrative. TRAs don't care about children - they are simply human shields and collateral damage.

Giving children mental health support and time to naturally grow out of their gender confusion is dangerous for adult male transitioners, because the focus will then turn to their true motivations for transition.

TL;DR: If you want to legitimise your fetish, make sure it is seen as the same thing as gender dysphoria in children, because that isn't about sex.

Goosefoot · 04/06/2020 13:45

Kind of related - Jesse Singal has a good article in Unherd about the chilling effect on scientists exploring this issue. A paper was retracted by a neuroscience journal after pressure from trans campaigners because it posited an alternative theory about the cause of gender dysphoria.

There is a comment from that article about therapists working with autistic patients that descried so closely someone I know that it was a little chilling.

SarahTancredi · 04/06/2020 14:06

Giving children mental health support and time to naturally grow out of their gender confusion is dangerous for adult male transitioners, because the focus will then turn to their true motivations for transition

Also dangerous for the lobby groups who need to either justify actions they have taken themselves as parents or need the next lot of stuff to work on on order to still exist.

Again it shows how with tras theres no middle ground. Its either all the.medication freely available no matter what the side effects or long term damage is, or everyone apparently hates trans kids and wants them to hurt themselves.

Not one person has ever said they shouldnt get help and support and love. That's the very basis of what we all want surely? Kids to be helped and supported. But to do that we need to know everything. Good and bad. Medicine has never been about telling people what they want to hear or ignoring things because it hurts peoples feelings.

Winesalot · 04/06/2020 16:43

The outcry on twitter is growing. I am sad to hear of the extreme anxiety this update to reflect accurate information has wrought. One of the main criticisms is that the information now doesn’t reflect the ‘positive’ benefits of blockers. I did not realise that the NHS site was supposed to make people happy. I thought it was purely an information service.

That so many people would use this site as a source of validation is a worry. Or is this 100% a ploy to get the changes removed again. This denial of reality is nuts!

SarahTancredi · 04/06/2020 16:51

That so many people would use this site as a source of validation is a worry. Or is this 100% a ploy to get the changes removed again. This denial of reality is nuts!

It is also nuts that they would still believe people who have no medical background, and a vested interest in keeping their choices validated or their income rolling in, over women and medical.professionals who take abuse daily, who have lost jobs and money and speaking engagements who have even been assaulted and threatened when meeting up to discuss it and who have literally nothing to gain and who speak out anyway because kids need us too.

Winesalot · 04/06/2020 17:06

SarahTancredi

The question always has to be asked ‘who benefits’ doesn’t it?

SarahTancredi · 04/06/2020 17:08

Last time I asked who benefited I was deleted...

Particularly when talking about the external obvious effects of young adults who took blockers as children ...

SunsetBeetch · 04/06/2020 17:11

I hope the NHS stands firm and takes an evidence-based approach, rather than bowing to lobbyists.

Changes to NHS gender dysphoria website page re puberty blockers
Changes to NHS gender dysphoria website page re puberty blockers
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