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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Central Park Incident

203 replies

Coyoacan · 27/05/2020 18:43

I saw the video when it first came out and saw a woman who play-acted on the phone to the police while torturing her dog for sound effects and using the colour of the man's skin in the hope that he would be shot on sight by the police.

It turns out that, as a feminist, I should have seen a poor woman, scared of a man in an isolated area, making a call for help and giving a limited physical description of the man.

In one discussion, where I suggested solidarity with the mothers of teenage black boys who never know if their sons would come home again when they left the house, that that is not a feminist issue.

Does feminism trump the fight against racism?

OP posts:
GlitterToast · 27/05/2020 19:01

That woman is 100% in the wrong. Central Park is one of the busiest parks in the world. She was in no danger from that man.

Im glad that the man has got justice and the dog has been rehomed.

NotAGirl · 27/05/2020 19:10

It's not really an either/or between racism and feminism.

In that case the woman was in the wrong, feminism doesn't mean you should act like every man who calls out your bad behaviour is a potential assailant. Feminism doesn't mean you can lie about the interaction with impunity.

I'm concerned about the risk to young black men of violent racist attack (including by police) I'm not sure whether it's a feminist issue except that the violent attacks tend to be male on male.

There are many issues that need to be resolved in the world but it's not up to feminism to solve all of them. There's many issues I'm concerned about as well as feminism and racism is a significant one.

PacificState · 27/05/2020 19:11

From the discussions on here I’ve seen opinion is running 99% against her. I haven’t actually watched the video because the description alone made me cringe, but her pointed use of ‘African American man’ makes it pretty much case closed in terms of her behaving in a malign and racist way, IMO. I really dislike the ‘Karen’ and ‘white feminism’ discourse because it’s reductive, but the descriptions of this video have been a real eye-opener in terms of understanding what POC mean when they refer to those characterisations. As a white British feminist I don’t think I know anyone who would behave like that - it feels to me that this is a specific US cultural context - but I could be being very naive.

I’m sorry that you fear for your boys. That must be terrifying.

CaraDune · 27/05/2020 19:23

Who on earth said that "as a feminist" you should take her side? They should be ashamed of themselves.

The woman was clearly a racist arsehole, and when you add into the mix that she threatened to call the police and lie that he was being agressive towards her, in a country where the cops are known to be trigger happy and randomly shoot black guys on the slightest pretext, she was not merely a racist arsehole, but pretty close to trying to cause a genuine threat to his life.

bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg · 27/05/2020 19:24

I really dislike the ‘Karen’ and ‘white feminism’ discourse

Same here. In the fight against racism, there is a lot of sexism and it gets ignored and minimised and shrugged off because it's for "the cause". There is a word "Karen" to describe white women behaving a certain way towards people of colour but there is no word for a white man who behaves in the same way. There is no word for a white man who pulls a gun and shoots Trayvon Martin and gets away with it scot-free and still to my knowledge has his job: we can't call him "murderer" because he wasn't convicted. We absolutely should call out the racist and dangerous behaviour of Ann Cooper (IIRC that's her name) but we should not use sexist language to do so.

What's happening is that the current SJW movement against racism is replicating patriarchal practices and they pretend it's not a problem. It's yet another case of "we'll deal with women's issues after the revolution".

Gncq · 27/05/2020 19:25

In America unfortunately it doesn't take much to convince the police to kill a black man.

Feminists in the UK can't really do much about that however much we would want to.

Ineverdidmind · 27/05/2020 19:28

I watched the video, ready to defend her. But the video is AWFUL. Yes there is sexism in the way she's being vilified but honestly, I'm finding it hard to muster up much sympathy for her.
She tried to get that man in serious trouble with the police, and used his race to do it. It was absolutely appalling to witness.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 27/05/2020 19:31

The video was filmed by his sister wasn't it? I'd buy the scared woman frighted by a man in a isolated situation more had he been alone or with other men (not that I buy it at all having watched the video). The sister being there kind of overrides that.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 27/05/2020 19:33

It's very much still part of US culture. Both parties had the same surname. That means it is entirely possible that her ancestors owned his ancestors.

Original poster
Coyoacan · 27/05/2020 19:35

Phew. Thank you lot for restoring my faith in the feminist board.

Yes, I also dislike the use of the word "Karen", but the video really impacted on me and then I was being gaslit by a couple of women claiming that she was the victim.

OP posts:
MrGHardy · 27/05/2020 19:49

"It turns out that, as a feminist, I should have seen a poor woman, scared of a man in an isolated area, making a call for help"

Turns out how? Where are you getting this idea from?

YinMnBlue · 27/05/2020 19:59

Does feminism trump the fight against racism?

Right must always trump wrong.

There are factors to do with sex and race that contribute to the overall measure of what is right - a woman will generally feel more vulnerable facing a man than vice versa.. Less so, you might think, if she has a dog with her.

A black person in the U.S, hearing a white woman yell 'An African American Man is threatening me to the police' will likely feel vulnerable, trapped and probably frightened.

She used his race against him, she used the racist police as a threat to exploit his race, and she lied - he wasn't threatening her.

It is nothing to do with feminism.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains · 27/05/2020 20:12

That thread and certain posters on that AIBU was absolutely fucking sickening.
Vile what she did, weaponising skin colour as some kind of power thing.

LouHotel · 27/05/2020 20:14

He phoned it, his sister posted it.

In his own words when she refuses to put the dog on the lead he says.

''Look if your going to do what you want then I'm going to do what I want and your not going to like it''

He then tries to get the dog to come over to him, he starts filming after this incident.

Absolutely she was using his race against him and knew what she doing but she was in a secluded area there was no one else around and if a man says that to me I'm not thinking about the colour of his skin I'm thinking that hes male.

I don't think that he meant it in that way but that's his male privilege of the situation.

Shes in the wrong for first breaking the rules and clearly using his race and threatening police brutality but I'm not convinced that her fear is driven by him being black but more that he was a him.

OvaHere · 27/05/2020 20:14

I live in the UK where cops don't have the same levels of systemic racism and brutality as they do in the US but I still can't imagine calling the cops in my local park over what was basically a non violent disagreement over dog walking.

I can understand her annoyance over being filmed but it was just annoyance not fear. The sensible thing to do is just put your dog on it's leash and go walk somewhere else.

Her threat and actual action of calling the cops was deliberate and loaded. You only have to see the George Floyd video (and others) to know what risk that puts an American black person in so it's not something to do over trivia.

That's my general take on it with the disclaimer I have never lived the US.

Toilenstripes · 27/05/2020 20:21

She’s absolute garbage. She was angry that her white lady privilege was challenged by a black man. He wasn’t threatening or menacing. He videotaped her to save himself and rightly so. And it turns out he’s just a bird nerd with experience of entitled people running their dogs off their leashes so his solution was to offer treats to the dogs knowing the owners would quickly leash them in response. She’s a racist dick.

PacificState · 27/05/2020 20:23

I've got a dog who really needs off-lead walks (I failed to plan for a pandemic by buying several acres of farmland) and a few times recently have been in woods etc where given current circs other walkers would have been justified in pointing out that ideally he should be on a lead. If someone did, and filmed me at the same time, I would be annoyed and embarrassed but I'd also know they were in the right. I suspect that's what this woman felt - apparently the area they were in is very well known for being strict about dogs on leads. My guess is she knew she was wrong, and that's what her initial response was about - few of us cope well with that, especially if someone whips out a phone and starts filming. What she did next was appalling, racist and just plain weird.

@lemonade I saw the AIBU thread and it was 99% people who thought she was flatly in the wrong. Just a couple of posters saying otherwise, from what I saw (didn't read all 1k posts I must admit)

DeRigueurMortis · 27/05/2020 20:23

I posted on that thread and am a regular here on FWR.

Her behaviour was appalling.

She was in the wrong and in her entitlement weaponised his race against him.

There were 2 lives in danger here - hers was not one of them.

Mr Cooper when she followed through on her threat to call the police that an African American man was threatening her life (he wasn't) and her dogs when she started choke him.

That said as I posted on the other thread I'm no more tolerant of misogyny than racism and the Karen meme pisses me off.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains · 27/05/2020 20:29

I think the OP was probably referring to a regular who had shocking views on there - was determined to paint the man as a victim.
It was pretty sickening reading

DidoLamenting · 27/05/2020 20:35

That said as I posted on the other thread I'm no more tolerant of misogyny than racism and the Karen meme pisses me off

She is a horrible woman- there's no defending her.

The Karen meme is misogynistic and reductionist. It can be defended either. And I really don’t care if it originated with black women.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains · 27/05/2020 23:11

Jesus - determined to paint the woman as a victim, not the man!!
Bloody typo and a half, that Blush

NewYorkStateOfMind · 27/05/2020 23:38

How is the Karen meme any more misogynist and reductionist that the use of the term "handmaiden"?

Black women use the term "Karen" to describe their negative experiences at the hands of white women. Why do you want to stop them doing this? It's shorthand. Like "handmaiden" is shorthand. Would you like to be told to stop using the word "handmaiden"? Or would that be silencing women?

NewYorkStateOfMind · 27/05/2020 23:43

The regular referred to is NotCisNorTerf , whose mind bending and gas lighting interpretation of the video was that Amy Cooper was a terrified victim, and that Mr Cooper was part of the "elite" who was trying to dominate and bully her, and should not have been filming her.

Although it's ok for, say, women attending a Women's Place meeting, to film protesters, even though the protesters don't like it. That's ok.

Gingerkittykat · 27/05/2020 23:47

This misunderstanding of feminism gives it a bad name.

No feminist I know has supported the woman in the video, the man was calm and polite. I would have liked to see a video of the interaction before she freaked out and made that call to get the full story but from what I have seen she acted terribly.

MorrisZapp · 27/05/2020 23:49

Any conversation about white feminism is one I won't be part of. Why is appalling police brutality in a country that allows it's citizens to carry guns my problem to solve?

I hate racism, I hate guns, I hate violence. So I won't be racist or shoot anyone. I'm also a feminist and I hate the sexist trash Karen meme but that means I'm a 'white feminist' which is absolutely a bad thing.

I'll stick to ordinary feminism, a movement to liberate all women from patriarchy.