Central Park Incident

[Coyoacan]

I saw the video when it first came out and saw a woman who play-acted on the phone to the police while torturing her dog for sound effects and using the colour of the man's skin in the hope that he would be shot on sight by the police.

It turns out that, as a feminist, I should have seen a poor woman, scared of a man in an isolated area, making a call for help and giving a limited physical description of the man.

In one discussion, where I suggested solidarity with the mothers of teenage black boys who never know if their sons would come home again when they left the house, that that is not a feminist issue.

Does feminism trump the fight against racism?

Who appointed him the park dog warden?

It's not a decent way to live your life to only do things you have been appointed to do. That's not how society works.

I found a lost child yesterday when I was walking my dog. Nobody appointed me the lost child warden but I still behaved in a way that benefited society by not leaving the child alone in the woods.

He's not the dog warden but he is involved with the Ramble area of Central Park. Not that that matters.

So the general gist seems to be it's not the job of white feminists to deal with things that don't concern them. i.e. racism?

Your version of feminism exists to deal with issues that affect you only?

Your feminism is about reducing your gap with white men, not about creating equality for all women? And you're here trying to make a case for the 'inclusivity' of feminism in the same breath

Nothing about the fact you are the most privileged group of women in the world crosses your mind?

The fact white women hold more societal power than almost all other men, except white men, matters to you?

Coupled with the back breaking bending a lot of you are doing to justify her actions, I would counter that you are the worst type of feminists. Perhaps the reason you hate the term Karen is because you know it speaks to you.

Black women (and men) have every reason to be weary of you. And frightened.

Maybe we'll think about your offence when you care as much about fighting racism as you do in fighting the reaction of people to racism.

Even when it's as overt as this video is, its breathtaking to see how quickly you revert to centering yourself.

Here we are discussing you, as always.

I won't speak on this again, it's too taxing for me.

But your racism is on display. Loud and clear.

Black women are moving away from you at an alarming rate as your ignorance, fake blindness and weaponising of race is sickening.

But, its becoming more widely obvious so that is our little silver lining. I suppose.

You can not be as innocent as you claim. You're either blind or lying. And if it is blindness, you should really consider whether you're intelligent enough to be at the centre of the feminist movement as you don't seem to have an awareness of the most pressing issues affecting the MOST oppressed women. Like they tell you. NOT like you decide on their behalf.

The call the manager interpretation of 'Karen' is used by all demographics on twitter as far as I can see, not by 'white men'.

Not my experience. I don't think it's particularly positive that a meme is used by "all demographics" to dismiss older women for being assertive in any case. And as I've said, I've seen it used pretty indiscriminately, like TERF is.

Home2018 that's not remotely the general gist of the thread, how absurd.

Your post contains pure lies about the "general gist" of the discussion here. Given that you're a blatant and obvious liar, I hope everyone reading the rest of your rant gives it all the consideration it deserves.

So the general gist seems to be it's not the job of white feminists to deal with things that don't concern them. i.e. racism?

I interpreted previous posters as saying that it's not our responsibility to call out every problematic white woman who comes along, just as we don't expect women of colour to call out Rihanna over the problematic content of BBHMM video. I didn't see anyone saying that racism is something feminists shouldn't care about.

FWIW, Mr Cooper, the victim in all this, doesn't think that piling on an individual helps and asserts that there is a bigger picture here.

Home 2018 makes a very valid point.

'Karen' wasn't coined by black women. It was coined by a man on Reddit whose ex-wife, whom he disliked immensely, was named Karen. He posted rants about her and an anti-Karen subreddit was created.

Some black women might now be using it for other purposes, but it's misogynist in origin.

The job of feminists is to oppose patriarchy and to call out sexism.

Most feminists will also oppose racism, because as reasonable people that's a given. But feminists bear no more responsibility for fixing racial inequality than any other group in society, and especially no more than than men do.

What I find dispiriting about the other thread and other discussions is that many people think you either have to be 100% on his side, or 100% on her side, whereas any situation is more complex than that.

I found this case interesting, and I see that this woman is having her life torn apart. There is a story in the NY Daily News that suggests at least she is a troubled woman, and I find it hard not to have "some" sympathy for her and the predicament she is now in, even if her behaviour was abhorrent.

www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/ny-amy-cooper-sued-married-ex-lover-before-calling-cops-on-black-man-20200527-2htiizslk5ftrdduca3qemxwpq-story.html

Seriously opposing racism is not a 'given' for 'reasonable people' - any more than opposing sexism is a 'given' for 'reasonable people'. If that were true, then it would all be sorted save for a few outliers and we could just pack up and go home. Racism, like sexism, is structural and systemic and we are all mired in it.

Women's Liberation must include commitment to anti-racism, not least because the majority of women are women of colour. Though modern racism is rooted in European imperialism and Atlantic slavery, its precursors (xenophobia, resource competition) has common origins with sexism millennia back (see Gerda Lerner's Creation of Patriarchy for the very early co-mixing of conquest over other groups, killing of men and enslavement of women).

Women's Liberation is necessarily against men's wars against others (men and women), against men's enslavement of others (men and women), against men's nationalist and racist supremacy (over men and women). If it is not against those things, then it is complicit with it. 'As a woman I have no country. As a woman I want no country. As a woman, my country is the whole world.' (Virginia Woolf) And black women and women of colour are the majority of women in that world. White women in feminism need to think more deeply about this stuff.

just as we don't expect women of colour to call out Rihanna over the problematic content of BBHMM video

I can't speak for anyone else but I would look down on, for example, men who don't call out blatant misogyny expressed by other men because it's 'not their problem'.

If I were in a park and a man I don't know, who doesn't have a dog with him but who just happens to have dog treats with him, is trying to attract my dog then I am perfectly entitled to think he is behaving in a creepy way

You think he's going to molest a fucking dog? Some people are weird, you'll go to any length to defend a racist, but won't give the black man (who's life could've been In danger) the same compassion.

Then you pay lip service at the end and say 'but she's wrong of course'. Just say you don't care about the REAL victim and be done with it.

You think he's going to molest a fucking dog?

You might google for poisoned dog treats. People abduct cats for their dogs to rip apart where I live. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

You think he's going to molest a fucking dog?

There seems to be a lot of deliberate misinterpretation going on in this thread. I get the impression that there are people with an agenda here who want to make it look like FWR posters agree with the racist behaviour of the woman in that video, and they are distorting things other posters have said - and inventing from whole cloth shit that nobody said - in order to accomplish this.

The lady was asked to put her dog on a lead as she was meant to when walking her dog in the park. The man was bird watching and obviously cared for the birds. She didn't like being told what to do and due to being a self entitled racist called the police to make out he was hurting her. You can hear her voice change once she's on the phone. Meanwhile she is choking and abusing her poor dog. How dare anyone try make her out to be the victim.

I meant that I imagine people who are engaged enough with social issues to call themselves feminists will also oppose racism. It would be frankly weird to me if they didn't.

Mainstream society is sexist and racist to its roots, that remains a fact. But expecting a particular group (feminists) to address another social issue (racism) simply because they've already identified themselves as quite keen on equality seems to me like the same old 'mum of the world' trope.

I've had tons of crap from sexist men about why as a feminist won't I fix their problems for them, some examples would be why haven't women set up domestic abuse shelters for men, why don't women raise money for male victims of rape, why don't women address male suicide rates etc.

As a reasonable person I do care about male abuse victims, male rape victims and men who take their own lives. I have a son. But as a feminist that isn't my remit to solve at societal level. I believe that when women achieve equality all of society will benefit but my driver for feminist action is womens liberation.

I don't think it's particularly positive that a meme is used by "all demographics" to dismiss older women for being assertive in any case.

It's sexist and ageist when it's used like that. There's a world of difference between using police racism as a weapon and asking to see the manager because of poor service. People will claim that women and girls aren't really systematically oppressed and all we need to do is be more assertive, but then when we speak up for ourselves we are "Karen". At this point, it stops being a useful tool to analyse the intersection between racial oppression and sex-based oppression and becomes a tool of sex-based oppression.

You know what I said earlier about how patriarchy can be replicated in liberation movements? Yeah, that.

I could not give a fuck if people think I'm bossy, strident or pushy, after all nobody labels men who display those traits.

People label white women with those traits "Karen" and Black women with those traits "angry Black lady". It looks like the demonisation of assertive women is a sex-based issue, independent of race, after all!

I don't see any other campaign for equality putting feminism front and centre. Black lives matter is about black people. Gay rights is about gay people. Disability rights is about people with disabilities. None of these groups are tasked with putting on other people's oxygen mask before addressing their own concerns.

@Kantastic
I'm no it's not a misinterpretation. Somebody called him creepy. What does that imply? If she's so worried about her dog it'd be on a lead and she wouldn't be choking it.

All the racist apologists coming out. She was wrong. The end.

Angry/scary black woman is absolutely another disgusting, hate filled reduction. It's basically 'burn the witch'. As is the Karen shite. It also makes opposition difficult because if someone has a go at you for being a complaining type, your natural objections further entrench their view that you don't count because you're a moaner. 'Karens complaining about being called Karens is peak Karen' is a trending trope.

It may seem weird, but then there's women who call themselves feminists tying themselves in knots trying to justify racism - very weird, but happens.

Morriszap.....

Do you not even recognise that your defaqto is white women.

Feminism is supposed to be about women no?

All women. Or, do you mean to specify that your concern is white women?

But expecting a particular group (feminists) to address another social issue (racism) simply because they've already identified themselves as quite keen on equality seems to me like the same old 'mum of the world' trope.

The amazing Magdalen Berns takes on the "mum of the world" trope: m.youtube.com/watch?v=bnrOLhx6L3c

Rest in power, Magdalen

it doesn't imply he's going to "molest" a dog. It implies that she may have thought he was trying to distract her dog so he can attack her, or as mentioned that he was some crazy weirdo who puts poison in dog treats. I don't know what kind of person would jump to "dog molestation" from that, but at the very least it's someone who has considerable "not being accosted by creepy strangers" privilege.

And "creepy from the perspective of a stranger he's accosted in the park" doesn't mean "creepy" objectively - that should be clear too. Maybe you're displaying genuine cluelessness, and not deliberate misinterpretation but I'm not convinced. He seems like a fine person and a good citizen. His behaviour when he spoke to her at the park, as he describes it himself, could have given her quite genuine and rational reasons to be afraid. She was in the wrong and clearly motivated by racism. It is possible for all those things to be true.

My concern is all women. That includes women of all ages, all social classes, all income brackets, all ethnicities, and all political persuasions, and it includes women I don't like and women I disagree with. All women.