How do you talk to teens about misogyny and trans issues?

[Walkingtheplank]

I've just been talking with my 13 year old daughter this evening and our conversation ended up being about trans issues - her saying we have to be kind, transwomen are women, NAMALT, accusing me of being one of those radical feminists - and me talking about gender stereotyping, how that damages us, and my concerns about the removal of single-sex spaces.

She clearly thinks I'm an awful bigot. How do you discuss this issue with your children?

Oldcrone,

I don’t think teachers promote a one sided view. Do you know this to be true? I think, within the teaching community, there is also a generational split.

Identity politics reaps what it sows. The ordering of people with a different perspective to one’s own has been going on a good few years now and applies as much to this board as to young people.

I do feel, thankfully, that there is starting to be a reaction to it, now. Universities, especially the top ones, are finally waking up to its implications.

Othering not ordering

I don’t think teachers promote a one sided view. Do you know this to be true? I think, within the teaching community, there is also a generational split.

Read what the OP has said on this thread. The one sided view being taught in schools is what this thread is about. Have you missed all the threads about the 'trans toolkits' for schools being issued (and now being withdrawn) by local councils?

Also have a look at this to see what sort of 'information' schools are being given.

www.transgendertrend.com/stonewall-autism-stonewall-schools-guidance/

Oldcrone,

I don’t need to read ‘threads’ to find out what teachers think (unlike you, I suspect). I work as a teacher and have many friends who are teachers. I actually discuss this ‘live’.

The fact that many local authorities are very PC,and this can be promulgated via ambitious SLTs into schools, does not mean most teachers believe it or preach it.

Maybe you should research beyond MN.

@Ursula2001

The difficulty IMO is that it's unlikely that either side will be happy with the others proposed solution. Trans people want affirmation of their female identity (because this isn't really about transmen IMO) so third places won't work. But neither do I see the GC crowd ever wanting males in their spaces (which is entirely fair).

This is probably the case for now. I think though that as the stigma of being phobic to ask questions and to do research which may produce results that are considered to negatively impact this minority is being lifted that a solution will be found.

To me, the biggest issue is that this is all very immediate in the scale of time. Force legislative changes in quickly so that society feels it is a done deal and just has to live with it. Instead of doing the long and arduous work to enact positive changes in line with evidence that has been proven to be true with no obfuscation.

An equitable solution will take time, just as it always does. It does however also require investment in independent research and collation of data and to have the socially stigmatizing labeling removed to enable this to happen.

I thought we were talking about providing all the facts to allow them to reach their own conclusion? That's why you would.

The conversation seems to come up in most of these cases because the children have already heard the opposing viewpoint but not the other side. I also don't know how I could teach something in a non biased way when it is based on a sexist foundation, and I can't see a way around that.

@larrygrylls

Oldcrone,

I don’t need to read ‘threads’ to find out what teachers think (unlike you, I suspect). I work as a teacher and have many friends who are teachers. I actually discuss this ‘live’.

The fact that many local authorities are very PC,and this can be promulgated via ambitious SLTs into schools, does not mean most teachers believe it or preach it.

Maybe you should research beyond MN.

You have made a lot of assumptions about me. What exactly are those assumptions based on?

Out of the people in real life who I have spoken to about this, the only one who was a 'true believer' was a recently retired teacher.

Are you suggesting that all the schools who are publishing 'trans toolkits' on their websites are actually ignoring them in practice? What are you doing in your school to halt the spread of this toxic ideology? Because if most teachers don't "believe it or preach it", why is there not more protest from teachers and refusal to implement these sorts of guidelines? If your analysis of what 'most teachers' think is correct, I would have thought these 'trans toolkits' would never have seen the light of day.

I thought we were talking about providing all the facts

The problems is these kids have not been provided with any facts by schools using stonewalls theology; they have been presented with a belief system as though it were fact.

@Aesopfable

I thought we were talking about providing all the facts

The problems is these kids have not been provided with any facts by schools using stonewalls theology; they have been presented with a belief system as though it were fact.

@larrygrylls has suggested that children aren't actually being taught this in schools, because hardly any teachers believe in it.

From my interactions with people who work in schools as well as what I've read online, it seems that whether or not the teachers believe in it, the children are still being taught it.

For example, one woman I know who works as a school administrator said that she had been instructed to refer to a female pupil who identifies as a boy as 'he'. She was given the impression by the headteacher that this was a legal requirement, so she had to comply, even though she doesn't believe in genderism herself.

It’s called “pluralistic ignorance”. In social psychology, pluralistic ignorance is a situation in which a majority of group members privately reject a norm, but incorrectly assume that most others accept it, and therefore go along with it.

Would she have really said 'well, it's nice that you share my sentiment but it's important that you also understand the reasoning behind the trans perspective before you reach a conclusion'.

Well, no, because the “trans perspective” is incoherent, untrue nonsense. Would you say “it’s also important that you understand the principles of astrology before you reach a conclusion” ?

Would you say “it’s also important that you understand the principles of astrology before you reach a conclusion” ?

Of course not. What's important is understanding the psychological purpose of astrology and all other incoherent nonsenses.

It's a religion, and I treat it the same as any other religion when talking to my child. We talk about where the ideas come from and why, and what role the religion plays in both society and individual lives, benefits to the individual versus costs to society and others, as well as the blatant falsehoods. I don't need an in-depth knowledge of every different religion in order to discuss them and encourage my child to think critically when drawing conclusions.

That said, it is useful to delineate the "trans perspective" because it's important to point out the logical error made by those who've yet to correctly locate the source of their problems within the patriarchal sociocultural context rather than within themselves.

Kind of like how in A Level Philosophy you end up learning a shitload about religious beliefs, so you can deconstruct them all and find the flaws and fallacies.