Daily Mail article M&S, Liz Truss, Pushback!

[BovaryX]

There is a prominent article in the Daily Mail which states M&S' policy of allowing changing room access to natal males is being criticised. It quotes Liz Truss, cites Baroness Nicholson and gives a concise overview of the issues. This is hopefully indicative of a paradigm shift where the rights of women and girls to sex segregated spaces are going to be upheld. Pushback!
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8351127/Marks-Spencers-transgender-policy-puts-women-girls-risk-voyeurs-say-campaigners.html

Needmore

Eloquently put.

I do think Archie finds 'gender', 'sex' and 'sexual identity' (whatever that might be) very confusing as he seems to use them interchangeably.

As for using the example of "parents accompanying their children" as a justification and a fig leaf for his company's appalling changing room policy, words fail me.

I hope Baroness Nicholson takes his letter and his erratic logic apart, word by word and line by line.

Let's not get distracted. This is a matter that transcends political differences

I totally agree, but with respect it was you and another poster who brought this extremely divisive figure - to put it mildly - into the argument. I felt duty-bound to point out some of the substantial evidence as to why we should all be extremely wary of him.

I also totally disagree with many of the points made by @Needmoresleep above - notably that Corbyn was “worse” than Johnson - but, as @Ereshkigalangcleg says, this is a distraction from the important issue under discussion, so let’s all leave these points fir another forum.

FFS stop tagging me. I am not responsible for decisions made by red wall voters.

I can choose not to shop in M&S. I have no idea whether Archie Norman is a nice bloke. Dont care. Dont like his policies.

A twitter poster has found a forum dedicated to male wearers of women's lingerie. M&S features heavily:

twitter.com/worriedmumofone/status/1264316614637498372?s=19

"1. This forum is for Male wearers of stockings & lingerie and discusses specifically how to target M&S, best times to go, easiest stores to access, you name it. Sample user photos attached for reference below @Baroness_Nichol

t.co/YDo3dgB29w

t.co/RqO4Zk5SUK "

"Bra fitting around young girls: t.co/RqO4Zk5SUK "

"User tries on “in broad daylight” in M&S

t.co/NJMMvgOSsh t.co/bTRFOVkVgX "

t.co/YDo3dgB29w

"General advice on how to target M&S. Assistants “really couldn’t care less” about you and the “thrill of your first lingerie purchase” t.co/N1McuWlJ0m "

"M&S is great as it’s full of families and no one bats an eyelid if you check the crotch of lingerie for stretch to accommodate the Male form. Staff don’t care he says. Adds to the thrill he says. t.co/dd4g8pQMXe "

"M&S Metro Centre, North East is the hot ticket to get sexual thrills around innocent customers - same types that use our changing rooms there apparently
t.co/HI9yb7eSjE t.co/2GVLTQEV7A "

"Worcester M&S - zero respect for boundaries of staff that work there from these men t.co/9rxvbyy7Bd "

"Shrewsbury & Merryhill branches are good targets for men to try on “sexy panties” as look... the staff don’t care t.co/YmzFacyVD2 "

"https://t.co/yVov6JVPVO Cardiff M&S - trying on panties and sharing photos online. Seems to be a thing on StockingsHQ. t.co/YmOuXfQiDv "

FFS stop tagging me. It wouldn’t have been hard to write “Please don’t tag me.” There is absolutely no need to be so rude or unpleasant to someone who has done his best to make his point in a polite and cooperative way.

And let's try again not to get distracted.

M&S features heavily

As Baroness Nicholson is clearly in touch with Liz Truss as well as the hapless Archie, that is exactly the sort of evidence that she needs. I'm relying on the Baroness to keep LT informed.

In the print edition of the Mail on Sunday, the article referenced in the OP has been printed alongside further pushing by the Baroness on the subject of NHS policy being extended to facilitate mixed sex wards on the spurious basis that they are single gender.

It wouldn’t have been hard to write “Please don’t tag me.” There is absolutely no need to be so rude or unpleasant to someone who has done his best to make his point in a polite and cooperative way

So to be straight, your telling a woman to "be nice"
That's umm helpful.

mSo to be straight, your telling a woman to "be nice" That's umm helpful.

For goodness’ sake, there’s no equivalence between members of the vile TRA lobby and the wokerati telling women in general to “be nice” about an issue that affects their rights and children’s rights and lesbian and gay rights and me politely pointing out that one individual could, yes, have been nicer in a conversation between allies.

I find the language used in the article encouraging.

”Marks & Spencer's practice of allowing men who identify as women to use female changing rooms”

This is much better than using the preferred terminology of transactivism, which I suspect might have been routinely used even a year ago.

I will be happy when we leave the phrase “identify as” behind and see it replaced with something more accurate such as ”claim they are” but it’s a step in the right direction.

Also in telegraph.

www.telegraph.co.uk/marks-spencer/

There’s a recent (March 2020) German paper. www.researchgate.net/publication/339738869_Sexual_Behavior_Desire_and_Psychosexual_Experience_in_Gynephilic_and_Androphilic_Trans_Women_A_Cross-Sectional_Multicenter_Study

I’m on my phone now but from memory it’s 80% of the transwomen attracted to women respond to Cross dressing in the way Blanchard said..

It’s not a exactly what Blanchard had in his old results so TRAs are saying it somehow disproves him. I am not a doctor, but I think it’s close enough!
I am also not a lawyer, but I would think a lawyer representing women working at M&S would be interested..

'This time, some of the group modelled for me. They loved it and I was made to feel so welcome. After the meeting, many came for a bra fitting and one of the group specially brought their partner along for a new bra'

I'm reminded of a post on Reddit a while back. Someone who claimed to have a TW work friend (inferred fairly early on in transition) who'd started using the Ladies. Female colleagues hadn't objected, but had quietly just started using the toilet down the hall.

TW was upset as had wanted the whole sisterhood, squealing and sharing lipstick thing that never happens except in their imaginations; friend/OP was wondering how to phase the complaint to HR.

Scenery for someone else's fantasy, sexual or not. I object.

Sorry - modelled bras and brought a partner (for a fitting of a look?).

Hands up - anyone put on a lingerie show for the measurer? Brought the old man along for a look-see? Made day out of it?

TW was upset as had wanted the whole sisterhood, squealing and sharing lipstick thing that never happens except in their imaginations; friend/OP was wondering how to phase the complaint to HR.

The complaint that all the women were choosing to use a different toilet? Fuckers.

Reminds me of this thread

Civil Service Trans policy - what can I do? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3520371-civil-service-trans-policy-what-can-i-do

WTF is Archie going on about re "sexual identity"? Is he attempting to say that gay people need different changing facilities to other people of their sex?

Yes, Eresh - OP was posting in a trans sub-Reddit wanting help with what to complain about. Posters, IIRC, agreed that this was dreadful transphobia but were not sure if there was an actual rule compelling women to join the girlie sisterhood toilet bonding experience.

In the Civil Service thread former Mumsnetter Trousering, who is an HR expert, makes a good case that allowing cross dressing males into women's toilets etc would constitute sexual harassment. She solicits the opinion of a QC she is working with on something else and he agrees, in certain circumstances.

Interesting sounding paper, OneEpisode. I shall have to download it and have a read soon. :)