Daily Mail article M&S, Liz Truss, Pushback!

[BovaryX]

There is a prominent article in the Daily Mail which states M&S' policy of allowing changing room access to natal males is being criticised. It quotes Liz Truss, cites Baroness Nicholson and gives a concise overview of the issues. This is hopefully indicative of a paradigm shift where the rights of women and girls to sex segregated spaces are going to be upheld. Pushback!
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8351127/Marks-Spencers-transgender-policy-puts-women-girls-risk-voyeurs-say-campaigners.html

That means nothing when they don’t accept sex in the usual way surely.

Michelle

That is a very interesting point. The conformity of viewpoint seems to be a recurrent theme. As you say, the incestuous nature of the candidate pool guarantees a total lack of diversity of opinion. It's grim and it's difficult to see how to unravel this Gordian Knot.

Many high end charity jobs draw from a very incestuous pool of extreme end liberal types who just periodically all change seats, there's very little new blood in and no introduction of new and different thought, it just concentrates the lunacy more strongly

The Stonewall thing? I think it says it all - supporting the T for woke cookies. Fuck the L.

Maybe we need our own ‘index’? Safety, equality and dignity for women Index?

Bovary I've said it before: when the reality of what has been allowed to happen is truly and properly addressed, it will involve having to close entire groups and departments, lose all the jobs and begin a new organisation from scratch. All policies from scratch. New employees and not people allowed to reapply for their jobs. It has been so fundamentally compromised this will be the only way to rip it out and start again in a way fair to the Nolan principles, unbiased and equally serving all the general public that organisation is supposed to serve.

Many high end charity jobs draw from a very incestuous pool of extreme end liberal types who just periodically all change seats, there's very little new blood in and no introduction of new and different thought, it just concentrates the lunacy more strongly.

Many high end county council and government posts from team managers upwards are run by the same type with the same beliefs who only recruit those who think as they do. They all occasionally swap jobs with the high end charity people.

THIS!

A lot are just in it for the OBE.

M and S dividends went down nearly 26% according to their annual report. Maybe the shareholders need to be made aware why women are turning away?
corporate.marksandspencer.com/annualreport

Also can't be on twitter so express my thanks here to Liz and the Baroness!

A safety and dignity index sounds a fab idea.

A comment under The Daily Mail article said: “They tried this in the USA in Target and people voted with their feet...they changed their minds in the end...so, the same will have to happen with M&S...”

Does anybody have details of this? It would be interest to know how exactly it was resolved and what the TRA/woke backlash was like.

Michelleoftheresistance

I still remain to be convinced that Truss isn't trying to please both sides by saying single sex spaces for women and girls will be protected, while actually meaning 'but anyone of any sex can be a woman or girl'.

Liz Truss appears to have told the trans lobby that the GRA reform won't harm them, but the same time committing to single sex spaces for women. That's not something that can happen.

You can't do both.

Maybe she will be designating certain men who are allowed in. Those with a GRC?

Because some men can be women? Which, again, never focuses women.

Whatever she does now, she has stated in public that sex segregation shall be upheld. It remains to be seen whether or not the public think certain men qualify as women.

In the meantime, Baroness Nicholson has been treated to a few websites of men discussing their fetish about going into Marks & Spencer's lingerie department.

Marks & Spencers, and all the other retailers, are deliberately allowing both their staff and female customers to be a prop in their male customer's sex fantasies.

mobile.twitter.com/worriedmumofone/status/1264316614637498372

when the reality of what has been allowed to happen is truly and properly addressed, it will involve having to close entire groups and departments, lose all the jobs and begin a new organisation from scratch. All policies from scratch. New employees and not people allowed to reapply for their jobs. It has been so fundamentally compromised this will be the only way to rip it out

Michelle

I really hope that is the upshot, but I don't have much faith in the ability of government to challenge entrenched bureaucratic state agencies, charities, quangos etc. From a political perspective there has been a cross party consensus that Stonewall is the benchmark of progress. As Empress says, it's lazy woke cookies for politicos. Many of whom seem incapable of grasping the erosion of women's rights, freedom of speech and the profound misogyny which seems to be a recurrent theme. M&S is prepared to toss its core customers straight under the bus. An Oxford feminist academic requires bodyguards because aggressive activists don't like her historical research conclusions. And the word lesbian can be used to describe anatomical males. How the hell did this happen?

It appears that ordinary people are fed up and want to see fairness, common sense and a reward for effort, rather than the specialness and correctness that seems to have invaded the thinking of the policy making elite.

If anyone should be credited with spotting this, it might be Dominic Cummings.

It’s difficult. The guy is a prat, and quite probably obnoxious. But he understands the concerns of the ‘Red Wall’ and issues such at self ID. (His wife is deputy editor at the Spectator, which has been sound on this issue from the outset.)

I think the battle for Cummings is really important. It is a proxy for the fight for control of policy making between a liberal elite and a populist. Unfortunately, perhaps, Cummings has a battle on two fronts. Not just those to the left, but Tories unhappy with Boris’ kitchen cabinet.

Pity. His arrogance in ignoring lockdown might well be his undoing, and reflective of arrogance elsewhere. But equally he seemed to have the drive and arrogance to stand up to the wokesters and turn the tide on the capture.

I think the battle for Cummings is really important. It is a proxy for the fight for control of policy making between a liberal elite and a populist

I agree. Great post.

M&S are actively encouraging male cross dressers to use their stores, with no concern for their female customers (or staff).

careers.marksandspencer.com/inside-mands/how-one-colleague-has-helped-make-m%26s-more-inclusive

There’s a lingerie store on eBay run by a trans woman. I think they have a physical store too. Of course people could buy from there and ‘support their community’. But that’s not the game is it?

Needmoresleep totally agree about Cummings.

But what if I don’t want to be a part of some guys fetish stuff.

Just the thought of it 🤮🤮🤮🤮

Glad to see the MSM are picking up on Baroness Nicolson's work.

It baffles me as to what a store like M&S are thinking. Brands like Topshop I can understand a bit more because their image is more about being down the cool kids and their 57 genders.

At this rate, in a years time they will only be selling to cross dressing men.

littlebrown

The only conclusion is that M&S simply don't care how many of their customers they are alienating. One would have thought that given the existential threat so many high street stores were facing even before this blasted virus, they might be more worried about the impact of woke. Apparently not.

So that manager is providing free coffee to a transgender person who is buying tights but not for female customers.

Crack on M&S, finding alternatives has highlighted to me quite how much I used to spend there buying clothes for whole household as well as food. Happy to continue to give that money to other stores.

Yes BovaryX

They don’t care about us.

So they can do what they do and we can spend our cash somewhere else

So they can do what they do and we can spend our cash somewhere else

Totally agree littlebrowndog

Maybe we need our own ‘index’? Safety, equality and dignity for women Index?

Yes!

I still remain to be convinced that Truss isn't trying to please both sides by saying single sex spaces for women and girls will be protected, while actually meaning 'but anyone of any sex can be a woman or girl'.

I agree. We need to make the government aware that this time that isn't going to fly.

The trouble with M&S is its arrogance. It's been much loved and supported for so long (when other retailers would have folded by now if they'd made as many mistakes), that they take their customer base for granted.
M&S isn't as loved as it used to be. We have given them chance after chance with their dodgy women's wear - I used to always check m&s first if I was on the high street (triumph of hope over experience), but I won't forgive them for the utter contempt they are showing to women.
If they don't pull this back, their days are numbered I think.