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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender-critical 'cult'

36 replies

BatShite · 24/05/2020 00:37

I apologize if this has already been posted, I did have a quick look but I really need sleep soon and wanted to rant somewhat beforehand. I have just read this penisnews article and am actually angry at it..usually I can laugh the bullshit off but this on has really got under my skin. Mainly I think, as everything 'the gender critical cult' is accused of, is what TRAs actually do. Honestly, this post might be pointless as its really just a bit ranty so feel free to remove mods if you see fit.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/05/17/terf-gender-critical-feminism-movement-lesbian-cult-amy-dyess-transphobia/

Some 'lesbian leader' groomed this woman apparently, then turned ot to be homophobic herself, or thats how it reads. A lot of accusations about GC people gaslighting lesbians, not letting lesbians speak, etc etc..however, and I might be wrong here so feel free to correct me..a huge part of the GC 'movement' is actually made up of lesbians, as they were on the frontline so to speak whe the attacking started. And to this day they do tend to get much more abuse than others too from the many narcistic males involved in this, or from what I have seen that is the case.

The whole thing reads to me like another 'I was gender critical until one of the any thousands of feminists said something I diagareed with and now I hold nothing but TRA views!!!' type posts we get here. I know I should ignore pink 'news', and I normally do, or find the bias slightly amusing, but this one has really badly got under my skin. the accusations of GC women gaslighting lesbians, along with the attempt to make out that GC people are homophopic (only a slight toe dip needed into the topic to find out the truth about who is homophobic here..) and of course the usual 'they hate trans people and are supported by the Christian right!' stuff too. Just ugh. Who are they trying to kid these days? I swear not that long ago a lot of my friendcs seemed to respect PN and their focus on things to do with homophobia and such. Now they seem to see them as a joke, or even actively homophobic (which I cannot deny, many of their articles are). Hell, I only read this as it was sent to me by my sister, who is a lesbian, with a LOT of ranting. She seems more pissed off than me with it to be fair, I can see why too. But my god, talk about reverseing the truth, so blatantly too.

Sorry if this is pointless. It maybe is. But I am sick of this nonsense. Along with the attempts to make out 'gender-critical' is a dwindling movement, with only a few supporters. Of course, all nasty transphobes who hate all trans people with a passion and are also hiding hmophobia just below the surface and support abusive women, because we hate all men, and women abuse too dontchyaknow? (on that note, I have yet to see any feminist, ever claim that no women are abusive. Just saying men are more abusive seems to set a lot of people off on 'man hater' 'I have been assaulted by 200 different women, not one man' and such posts.) Same shit, different day. I kind of wish we could go back to when pinknews was a bit more respected, its a shame the road they chose to go down, to turn on the people they apparently support. Like Stonewall.

--

She believed, like many people in the “gender critical” feminist movement do, that the lesbian community to which she belonged was under attack from trans-rights activists.

She believed that lesbian identity itself was being infringed on and erased by trans women, and that the media didn’t care – more than that, she believed that the media was being controlled by trans people.

She believed that she was part of the fight back against trans-rights activists – part of the fight back against homophobia.

Amy, who is based in Seattle, doesn’t believe those things any more. Looking back on her time in the “gender critical” feminist movement, she is unequivocal: it’s a cult.

A cult that groomed her when she was vulnerable and sleeping in her car; a cult that sought to control her, keeping tabs on her movements and dictating what she could and couldn’t say; a cult that was emotionally and sexually abusive towards her.

--

I cannot really get my head round, at all, claiming to 'support' a 'movement' just because you have been told they are one thing, though you have never seen any evidence of that, infact have seen the opposite happening but because people tell you lesbians are being silenced, you stay with this apparently abusive group because they tell you they are right? Or something? Such a thought process makes no sense to me at all. If I see evidence that something is not what it claims to be, thats it, regardless of aything else? Maybe thats just me though..its hard to try and think like someone else!

One British lesbian even promised to find Amy a wife, so she could stay in the UK and galvanise the struggling gender-critical movement here.

This is weird..but interesting if it happened. Though quite why this Amy was apparently the saviour of the entire movememt, so much so that it appears she was begged to stay and 'front' it (despite me never having heard of her?) I don't know.

Finally, I do not understand, at all, how someone can go from apparently writing the linked medium article, clearly understanding the silencing of lesbians, the abusiveness towards them and so forth, and suddenly decide that that was all lies, despite there being actual evidence..much of it..of TRAs acting exactly that way on the article?! And to also decide that actually, its other lesbians and GC women who are the problem, and TRAs are just misuderstood, the real homophobia is from those saying lesbians should not be pressured into sex with male people. Bizarre.

OP posts:
Onebigfoot · 24/05/2020 00:49

Sorry I haven't read the whole thing but there's been a lot about it Twitter.

I believe the lady accused of trafficking is considering a libel action?

Lordfrontpaw · 24/05/2020 01:00

It’s pink news! I’d believe Donald trump before them.

Dances · 24/05/2020 05:44

And she's seems to be rather self obsessed, shouting 'Do you know who I am?' at a lot of women who, in fact, don't have a clue nor give a fuck

Gncq · 24/05/2020 07:08

Yeah it's batshit.

Also, the TRA Lobby are so desperate to find examples that are "peak trans" but in reverse, because so many people peak trans, become GC after being supportive of tra, but there are virtually no people who go from GC to TRA, they'll actually go so far as to completely make something up just so they can say it happens.

ImnotlikearegularMomImacoolMom · 24/05/2020 07:19

She's not well.

Fairybatman · 24/05/2020 07:26

Divide and conquer, that’s what they are trying to do. Turn lesbians and GC feminists against each other (as if the two are mutually exclusive) because otherwise the arguments of the two groups reinforce each other.

BatShite · 24/05/2020 16:13

Also, the TRA Lobby are so desperate to find examples that are "peak trans" but in reverse, because so many people peak trans, become GC after being supportive of tra, but there are virtually no people who go from GC to TRA, they'll actually go so far as to completely make something up just so they can say it happens.

I have definitely noticed that. Its quite common on here actually. TRAs claiming they 'were' GC until X but now they saw the light and went the opposite way, when its clearly bollocks. It does only seem to go one way. And no amount of new accounts or TRA posters saying 'well I was totally GC until I saw a feminist be nasty so now I am on the side of homophobia and lies' will convince me otherwise tbh.

OP posts:
Michelleoftheresistance · 24/05/2020 16:20

It's batshit.

A very very common theme of this political lobby's people is 'if you'd just stop noticing or minding about anything it would be fine '

Which is toddler in its thinking. Like if you put your hands over your eyes no one can see you.

The other problem is that 'cult' is a term with specific meaning that is ascertainable by looking at a number of features. It's not a word that lends itself to wider and more creative meaning, there are specific characteristics. One group in this debate does meet a number of those features and the other doesn't. A quick bit of reading will easily help you see which.

So again it's good old classic projection and using Big Words that are perceived as powerful when GC women use them, and throwing everything out in the hope it somehow smears GC women. They do say the sincerest form of flattery is imitation.

OneEpisode · 24/05/2020 16:24

I was just reading this on how to spot a baseless conspiracy theory. www.snopes.com/news/2020/05/16/plandemic-and-the-seven-traits-of-conspiratorial-thinking/
There are 7 signs apparently:

  1. Contradictory beliefs
  2. Overriding suspicion
  3. Nefarious intent
  4. Conviction something’s wrong
  5. Persecuted victim
  6. Immunity to evidence
  7. Reinterpreting randomness

Does anyone want to run through the list?

BadLady · 24/05/2020 16:28

Amy has never been to the Uk, but she claims she was in a Uk cult? Confused

Lordfrontpaw · 24/05/2020 16:36

I thought she claimed to have been lured over here?

Strangerthantruth · 24/05/2020 17:15

twitter.com/AmyDyess/status/1264283229302820865?s=19

Delusions of grandeur. Still, it gave a lot of people a good laugh last weekend, it was so ridiculous.

BatShite · 24/05/2020 17:22

Ooh I bet loads of people are positively quaking in their boots. So unusual for a TRA to write a smear piece on feminists! They must be terrified, all the 'major players' in this saga..especially the leading lesbian who apparently trafficked someone to be this persons wife, in order to 'keep her in line'! Grin

OP posts:
Lordfrontpaw · 24/05/2020 17:24

I think she is very very brave. Nobody crosses the muffia...

OneEpisode · 24/05/2020 17:33

The main perpetrators apparently have the J first name.
Changing the subject, I do think fiction flows better if you choose less confusing names. I think Georgette Heyer chose character names alphabetically?

testing987654321 · 24/05/2020 17:47

The nonsense about GC "stars". It suggests that GC feminism is based on personality and that it will be discredited if some of the better known women are shown to have acted badly. It doesn't work like that.

It's not possible to change sex. Women are adult human females.

Those two statements are facts.

You can like me or dislike me but those facts will remain true regardless.

GivesNoFox · 24/05/2020 17:48

I think even Prick news and the TRA's realised that this was not a good look to push a story they want to be true just because it benefits their ideology and gives them victim points as most of the 'excitement' they had over this interview had mostly died down after a day or two.

Even someone not caught up in the TRA/GC debate can do minimal research and see that what Dyess is saying, in the best case scenario, has no merit or, in the worst, is just made up fantasist bollocks. Just look at her interaction with people who disagree with her on twitter and you can see that she's not very well...

Most people hadn't heard of her until the PN interview and there is literally zero evidence that she had any notable role in the GC movemet besides writing that one article in 2018, let alone being a 'Big player'.

If there was any actual evidence to back her claims there is no doubt the TRA's would have plastered it all over twitter by now, instead they are left pushing an anecdotal story of a woman who, on top of soliciting donations from other women to set up a lesbian ,edia site and 'run for president' and not done anything she promised with them, has major delusions of grandeur.

OneEpisode · 24/05/2020 20:11

I’ve seen the bemused jokes on JB’s twitter feed be picked up in some unlikely places. So it has achieved some more sunlight.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/05/2020 20:39

People who know that humans are a sexually dimorphic species and that we aren't able to change sex cult.

People with working eyeballs cult.

People who don't want to see kids being sterilized cult.

OneEpisode · 24/05/2020 20:59

A social WhatsApp group which includes colleagues was discussing that Pandemic conspiracy theory, I was able to pivot the discussion to the Meghan Murphy article about the International Lesbian Conspiracy. It was funny. I hope some of my colleagues are now reading other articles on Canada’s foremost feminist website. I can hope.

NotTerfNorCis · 25/05/2020 14:16

This 'feminism as a cult' narrative is really taking off. Now the talk is about how to forgive people who've 'escaped the feminist cult'. Here, a female person who uses he/they pronouns thinks that 'they [feminists] must take accountability for the harm they caused, make reparations, and fight for/with us until we're safe.' Another TRA proposes spitting on 'former cult members'.

twitter.com/edaviesauthor/status/1264858891097198592?s=19

twitter.com/PangaLynnM/status/1264694919467339781?s=19

NotTerfNorCis · 25/05/2020 14:19

Thing is... I can't imagine feminists talking about former TRAs in the same way. Especially former TRAs who are women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/05/2020 14:22

This 'feminism as a cult' narrative is really taking off.

Of course, because it's all about projection, and outrageous reversals.

Michelleoftheresistance · 25/05/2020 15:21

feminism as a cult

It's quite sad really, the projection just writes the pathology for everyone to see.

Reality and facts are not an article of faith; gender souls... yes, absolutely a faith based position, and quasi religious. Cults are an actual thing you can't just identify as something being a cult because it sounds fun. Apply the tests. Demonstrate it.

Common characteristic:

  • The group has an authoritarian leader who commands control, loyalty, and allegiance from group members.
  • The leader claims to have special knowledge or insight that others don’t have.
  • The cult maintains practices that are different from normal behavior.
  • The cult maintains that they are the only ones to have the truth, and that leaving will pose risks.
  • The cult separates itself socially from others, and is usually practicing elitism. They may also isolate followers from other people outside the cult.
  • Members of the cult feel or profess that they are the subject of persecution from people outside the cult.
  • The cult has its own terminology and phrases.
  • The cult leaders maintain control over members by using certain forms of mental manipulation. They remind the group that if they stick to the group’s beliefs or teachings, they will get special rewards. There is punishment for disobedience to the teachings and for leaving the group.
  • The leader or leaders maintain control over the lives of members.
  • Members are encouraged to contribute money or property to the group. (This may be conveyed to the members in a manner in which they believe that the cult is suffering financially when they are not.)
  • Recruitment of new members may be done in a deceptive way. (This may be accomplished by members not explicitly sharing the true inner workings of the religious organization with prospective members, including the losses or damage that will result if they leave).

Check the objective evidence in the public domain. Grown ups please draw own conclusions.