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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Did anyone write to M &S Re changing rooms?

109 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/05/2020 18:41

Baroness Nicolson wants evidence rather than heresay...

twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1262437703217528838?s=19

OP posts:
TedsFederationRep · 19/05/2020 12:08

Oh! I didn't read it as _uk but as .uk so [email protected] and that worked.

I also forwarded my email and the response to my MP as a matter of courtesy. She knows my GC views so it won't come as a surprise.

Chrestomanci3 · 19/05/2020 12:25

Thanks Ted, I had to enlarge the image on my phone, so it wasn't great quality. I'll forward my (unanswered) correspondence with M&S later.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/05/2020 12:55

It's worth following the Baroness on twitter - she seems very on top of things and is continually asking for evidence of various things, this thread was started because she wanted evidence that people had challenged M&S about their changing room policies.

Now she wants evidence that Stonewall has been telling orgs that self ID is law.

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 19/05/2020 13:07

It's worth following the Baroness on twitter - she seems very on top of things and is continually asking for evidence of various things, this thread was started because she wanted evidence that people had challenged M&S about their changing room policies.

Baroness Nicholson hosted and chaired the WPUK House of Lords Meeting.

"A Woman’s Place is in the House of Lords
London

Wednesday, 10 October 2018

Tickets: 70+

Venue: House of Lords Committee Room

Speakers: Kathleen Stock, Julian Norman and Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Baroness Winterbourne (Chair)

In addition to our public meetings, we were invited to organise a panel discussion in the House of Lords hosted by Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne.

Around 70 people attended this invitation-only event."
womansplaceuk.org/a-record-of-womans-place-uk-meetings/

There are two speeches available, Julian Norman & Kathleen Stock's.

Kathleen Stock's speech critiqued the deeply flawed Women & Equalities 'Trans Inquiry' led by Maria Miller MP
medium.com/ @kathleenstock/womens-place-talk-full-text-house-of-lords-oct-10th-2018-b1f3d70c4559

Julian Norman (a barrister specialising in Human Rights) outlined the legal background to the GRA.
(extract)
The background to the Gender Recognition Act (“GRA”) was the case of Christine Goodwin, who took the UK government to the European Court of Human Rights, arguing that the government’s failure to recognise her in law as a woman breached Article 8 ECHR. She had suffered discrimination, including being unable to marry her male partner, difficulties caused by an unequal pension age, and detriment caused by her birth certificate showing her as male, which outed her as trans whenever she was compelled to show it.

The government maintained that the interference with her private life was proportionate. The Court upheld the complaint, pointing out at §87 that there was no threat of “overturning the entire system” given that the number of transsexuals in the UK was estimated at only 2,000 – 5,000, and at §91 that although there would be legal repercussions these were not insuperable “if confined to the case of fully achieved and post-operative transsexuals.”

The government responded by introducing the GRA as a mechanism by which this small group could reconcile their new identity with the state." (continues)

concludes:
"Failure to share someone’s belief is not the same as mockery or disdain for it. It cannot be beyond the wit of the legislature to protect the beliefs of those who believe they have an innate gender, protect the rights of others to agnosticism on the point, whilst also maintaining sex based protections.

My final point is this: If gender identity is innate, then the cultural norms attached to the female sex, which we call gender, and which have historically served to oppress women, are not a bug, but a design feature. A philosophy which seeks to ascribe women’s oppression globally and historically to something innate within them – whether that is wandering wombs, or phrenology, or evolutionary psychology – has never ended well for women. We should be extremely slow to codify in law such a perspective.
womansplaceuk.org/julian-norman-in-house-of-lords/

R0wantrees · 19/05/2020 13:08

apologies for broken link:

Kathleen Stock's speech critiqued the deeply flawed Women & Equalities 'Trans Inquiry' led by Maria Miller MP
medium.com/@kathleenstock/womens-place-talk-full-text-house-of-lords-oct-10th-2018-b1f3d70c4559

Datun · 19/05/2020 13:20

Bloody hell. she's really on it.

Roseburn · 19/05/2020 13:24

misbriefed Grin
Go Baroness!

OnlyTheLangoftheTitBerg · 19/05/2020 13:40

I've forwarded the emails I sent at the time, thanks for sharing the email address.

teawamutu · 19/05/2020 15:26

Baroness Nicholson is a bloody marvel. Am hoping her confident sounding statements that self-ID is not on the cards, further changes will be made etc are rooted in insider info.

RoyalCorgi · 19/05/2020 15:31

How interesting that a major retailer should have such contempt for the safety and privacy of its customer base.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/05/2020 15:39

The Baroness has written a letter to M & S...

twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1262751537790500868?s=19

Did anyone write to M &S Re changing rooms?
OP posts:
Lordfrontpaw · 19/05/2020 15:43

oh its too teensy for my screen!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/05/2020 15:44

Sorry, MN reduces the quality of images it seems, the one on twitter is a bit better.

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Lordfrontpaw · 19/05/2020 15:45

Just read it like ShockShockShockShockShock (in a good way)

RoyalCorgi · 19/05/2020 15:52

It's such a relief to see that letter. And to know that there is, finally, someone in a position of influence that gets it. Gets that policies such as those adopted by M&S make women and girls unsafe. Gets that they discriminate in particular against women and girls from religious minorities. Gets that, in fact, Stonewall and other organisations have been lying about the law for years and that major organisations that should know better have believed them.

Cuntysnark · 19/05/2020 16:09

I’m delighted! Thank you cards at the ready.

Lordfrontpaw · 19/05/2020 16:11

Oh - cards! I mistakenly forgot to cancel my free sub to OneTouch so have a year's worth of bloody cards to use. May as well put them to good use.

Who else...?

Lordfrontpaw · 19/05/2020 16:12

(Touchnote)

Imnobody4 · 19/05/2020 16:16

I absolutely adore that woman.

Bananabixfloof · 19/05/2020 16:26

Oh my she is just wonderful.
She sure is getting shit done.

I think I may just love her, she. Dont tell anyone.

Cuntysnark · 19/05/2020 16:29

Jacky Doyle Price is on my list.

Datun · 19/05/2020 16:32

Bloody hell, that letter! She doesn't hang around does she. Crikey.

It's like my mum has come to sort out the school bully.

Lordfrontpaw · 19/05/2020 16:42

More like my grandma (mum was good but she was particularly scary and a bit bonkers)

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/05/2020 16:45

Well damn, that's going to be a bit harder for M&S to ignore than the many women who've already complained about their shitty policy.

Bananabixfloof · 19/05/2020 16:47

Well damn, that's going to be a bit harder for M&S to ignore than the many women who've already complained about their shitty policy
Ooh I sort of want the baroness to get the same copy paste shite we all did. I can imagine the explosion from here.