Men and coronavirus

[QuentinWinters]

Young men more likely to break lockdown
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52587368

Men in all age groups more likely to be severely impacted and die.

Maybe it is time for male specific restrictions?

How is using periods as a proxy for female hormone not the same as using erections as a proxy for male hormone.

The former has a much more reliable, direct correlation, the latter has a multitude of potential causes of which testosterone deficiency isn't even the most common cause. It would be like asking about dental hygiene - gingivitis does correlate to a risk of heart disease but it's not a useful indicator to reveal potential risk factors for other diseases.

I answered this the other day and there was definitely a question about regularity and frequency of periods. I think those options came up when I answered that I was still having periods.

Oh - so I've stopped means - that you don't ever expect to have them again, but I'm not currently having is for temporary reasons you aren't menstruating at the moment. OK, yes. With a bit of explanation I understand (I hope they have tooltips!)

How is using periods as a proxy for female hormone not the same as using erections as a proxy for male hormone.

Because using erections as a proxy for male hormone doesn't work. While a man with very low testosterone is likely to have difficulty with erections, there are many other reasons for having difficulty with erections which don't involve very low testosterone.

And using periods as a proxy for female hormones doesn't have the same issues?

Eating disorders
Lots of exercise
Plus I'm sure other reasons can influence having periods or not

As a proxy across a large group of people, that has issues for sure.

And the 'I've never had a period' option being first in a questionnaire aimed at women really does seem more odd the more I think about it!

Men are more impulsive, especially young men that is in their brain wiring. They are far more likely to take risks and not consider the consequences.
I read this in a neuro science book, I'm paraphrasing though.

And the 'I've never had a period' option being first in a questionnaire aimed at women really does seem more odd the more I think about it!

There are people who are phenotypically non-trans women who have never had a period. They might have a Disorder of Sex Development, or they might have had pre-pubertal chemotherapy, to give two examples.

Given the type of research they appear to be doing, someone who answers yes to that question is probably someone they want (a) to exclude from their sample because they don't think they can accurately deduce their hormone status and (b) they therefore don't want to ask them any more of these questions.

Occam's Razor

Well yes but when you design questionnaires you don't tend to start with the really rare answer.

Also if you do start with the rare answer you are priming people to notice and start them off semi consciously wondering what it's all about.

And in general, even if it is in/out, you should design for the end audience not how your decision making process goes at the back.

Have they thought about how this is going to land with women who have a variety of common reproductive related issues?

Nah.

But changing the question from sex to gender happened in a flash.

Women's reproductive health is a really sensitive subject for women.

I mean either they want to be sensitive or they don't, you know?

Great - more wifework as men can’t do anything outside the house as well as choosing not to do anything inside it either....

covid.joinzoe.com/post/oestrogen-covid

LONDON, UK - The COVID Symptom Study today announces it will be working together with NHS England to facilitate key research into the potential protective effects of hormonal therapies, like HRT or the pill, and COVID-19. View our webinar on oestrogen and COVID-19 here.

More than 3 million people in the UK have provided data via the COVID Symptom Study app, launched by researchers at King’s College London and health technology company ZOE. This is the largest group of participants contributing to COVID-19 research in the world. Unlike contact tracing apps, The COVID Symptom Study app focuses on gathering health data to advance research into understanding the disease and providing short and long-term clinical solutions for the Nation’s recovery.

The COVID Symptom Study app has been updated to include specific questions about periods, hormone medications and menopause with the aim to better understand how hormones such as oestrogen might influence COVID-19 outcomes. The data will shed more light on the underlying reasons why there are sex-based differences in the response to coronavirus infection and the role of hormones in the disease as demonstrated in COVID Symptom Study data on hospitalisation.‍

Dr Louise Newson, advisor to NHS England, GP and menopause specialist commented:

“The COVID Symptom Study volunteers are an amazing resource that can answer a powerful question about the role of hormones in Covid-19 in a matter of days which can help the NHS save lives.”

Tim Spector, Professor of Genetic Epidemiology at King’s College London:‍

“We are really pleased to be working with NHS England and our millions of citizen scientists to help progress our understanding of COVID-19. It’s fantastic to see the COVID Symptom Study being used as a critical tool to enable NHS England to scale research projects at pace and ultimately help find a long term solution to this virus. Unlike the contact tracing app, the COVID Symptom Study is allowing users to be actively involved in the world’s largest science research project to help fight COVID. We welcome further opportunities to collaborate with the medical and scientific community to make even more progress in the fight against this deadly disease.”‍

Why are we conducting this research?
Many studies have shown that COVID-19 appears to affect men more than women. Here you can see data from our app showing that men report more need for respiratory support (RS), from oxygen to ventilation after visiting hospital. This is true in the confirmed test positive group (T-COVID), as well as people who self-reported they had COVID (SR-COVID) but were not tested, and people we think had COVID based on symptoms they tracked (I-COVID).

We have also seen that in women the increased risk with age starts to become appreciable earlier than in men - this change appears to happen in the late 50s. We are currently taking a closer look to see whether this is related to the menopause.

Oh my god. You are asked this question once, and once only. You have the option to not answer. You have the option not to take part in the study at all. If you are offended, triggered or whatever, then don't take part.

Why don't you take all this up with the researchers? It's not our fault that you don't like it. Some of us are trying to do our part to help them collect our data. If you don't like it then don't do it, or complain to the scientists running the study that you are offended by them daring to ask a question about menstrual cycles.

You can answer on behalf of children too so I'm imagining that a good number of girls under say 12 have never had a period.

Eating disorders
Lots of exercise
Plus I'm sure other reasons can influence having periods or not

And, in all the cases I can think of, those influence menstruation by either interfering with sex hormone levels or affecting their receptors so it's still a useful measure.

And the 'I've never had a period' option being first in a questionnaire aimed at women really does seem more odd the more I think about it!

Out of interest and because it's best to have as many people engaging with it, I asked a male colleague download the app (he wasn't aware of this specific one). He reported that sex and gender are both asked in the current version, I also saw in the screenshot he sent that race is listed as:

-Asian/Asian British
-Black/Black British
-Mixed Race (two versions)
-White British
-Chinese/Chinese British
-Middle Eastern
-Other
-Prefer not to say

Are the authors also biased against Chinese people? If it were in alphabetical order, they'd appear between Black and Mixed and if it were in proportion within the UK population, White would be first.

Also, I'm afraid I wasn't able to ask about phallocentric questions.

But changing the question from sex to gender happened in a flash.

Again, that didn't happen.

Didn't it? It started with sex then suddenly switched to gender. There were threads at the time.

Didn't it? It started with sex then suddenly switched to gender.

Every screenshot I've seen and the versions I've used all asked either purely about sex or about sex and gender. I've never seen a version that just asked about gender. Asking both questions avoids any ambiguity (given that there are individuals who insist TWAW and TMAM) and keeps the data clean.

If you have a different screenshot or a changelog then please do link it.

How is using periods as a proxy for female hormone not the same as using erections as a proxy for male hormone

What on earth have erections got to do with anything?

Didn't it? It started with sex then suddenly switched to gender. There were threads at the time

No it didn't.

And this is the question about hormones

Interesting article: www.france24.com/en/20200331-coronavirus-why-do-more-men-die-of-covid-19-than-women

Researchers are interested in the immune system differences between men and women, particularly related to genes which sit on the X chromosome, of which women have two. This may or may not prove more relevant than hormone levels.

Regardless, this issue highlights once again how the whole magical concept of trans does nothing but obfuscate when what is desperately needed is clarity. I think it is appalling that medical researchers are using the phrase "assigned at birth" and ridiculous to be talking about gender identity. They're having to do the latter to winkle out who would otherwise be buggering up their research results by identifying as something they are not.

I agree with you beetroot it's a strange answer to put first on a question about periods.

Regardless, this issue highlights once again how the whole magical concept of trans does nothing but obfuscate when what is desperately needed is clarity.

Not necessarily. If you could get a large enough sample of people born male who are taking female hormones and vice versa and then compare their respiratory support and death rates to people who aren't, then that may give you a window into the question of whether the differences between men and women here are determined by hormones, chromosomes or both. From the screenshots that have been posted, it would appear that they are asking at least some women whether they are taking testosterone (though of course some women take low dose testosterone as HRT rather than to transition to male which needs a high dose).

Is the hormone question for males and females?

If so, why is there an option for 'oestrogen hormone treatment for gender transitioning' for transwomen but not a 'testosterone hormone treatment for gender transitioning' for transmen? Only says 'testosterone hormone treatment'. Surely they would be interested in whether transmen lose the potentially benefit of female hormones?

Conversely, if it's supposed to be a post-filter question which is now only a list for females, why is there an option in there for transwomen i.e. males? They should have been filtered out at the sex/gender question stage.

Conversely, if it's supposed to be a post-filter question which is now only a list for females, why is there an option in there for transwomen i.e. males? They should have been filtered out at the sex/gender question stage.

Are you really looking for validation from a medical survey?

Do you not understand that we are just respondents of this survey? We didn't devise it.

Why not contact the scientists involved and ask them all of your questions? Then they can explain exactly who, how, why etc.

Well yes the original question was, what is your sex.

Then it got replaced with the two you posted.

With the erections thing I was pointing out that I think it would be unlikely that personal questions like that would be asked of men, but using info about reproductive things for women is run of the mill.

I was pointing out that I doubt men would be asked to provide such intimate info via an app, while for women it's standard that we get asked this stuff.

Obese men are high risk from Corona mortality and also can have elevated oestrogen levels.

There are those who believe the 'authorities' are infallible and those who don't. The changing of the question, the putting no periods ever answer first, and the focus on female hormones as a protective factor and no mention of testosterone as a risk factor are things I find interesting.

I see people disagree, and of course that is fine :)

I won't be downloading the apps due to other issues anyway...