Does Scotland not have sex as a protected characteristic?!

[stumbledin]

Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf is quoted as saying (re hate crime):

" ... The Bill builds on existing laws. It retains existing characteristics in relation to the aggravation of offences by prejudice and adds age as a new characteristic.

" ...The Bill provides for new ‘stirring up’ of hatred offences that would apply to all characteristics listed in the Bill: age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity and variations in sex characteristics. ... "

SEX CHARACTERISTICS - surely this isn't right. Or is it just plain female erasure. ie the old trans narrative of there being no sex so sexism cant exist????

And later on says:

" ... Lord Bracadale recommended that gender should be added to hate crime law. Leading women’s organisations were opposed to this. They proposed a standalone offence on misogynistic harassment be developed, which the Scottish Government is committed to in principle.

A working group will consider how Scotland’s criminal justice system deals with misogyny, including consideration of a specific offence on misogynistic harassment and whether sex should be added to the characteristics in hate crime law. ... "

I am totally bemused.

How did things get so bad in Scotland that they are having to discuss sex being added as a characteristic??

I was aware from the work of ForWomen.Scot of just how strong the trans infilitration of goverment and "civil society" but never ever dreamed that sex was not accepted as a protected characteristic.

Beyond words.

Intersex, like gender, is a very useful trojan horse word to those wishing to exploit the law in their favour.

Women's groups pointed out the issues and concerns for women through their language and protections being stretched and obviously, demonstrably exploited.
DSD groups pointed out the issues and concerns for people with DSD through their language and needs being stretched and already, demonstrably exploited.

But it's going to be forced through anyway. Not in the interests of women, not in the best interests of people with DSD, definitely not in the best interests of homosexual women and not in the interests of child safeguarding either.

Not that inclusive really. An interesting group for a government to be prioritising and serving against the interests of others, since the main beneficiaries look to be typically developed, able bodied, heterosexual people born male. This will be invaluable in their accessing facilities where female people and children are vulnerable, and criminalising female people who dare to protest.

Really, how stupid do you have to be to not see what's going on here?

Intersex, like gender, is a very useful trojan horse word to those wishing to exploit the law in their favour.

This is exactly what this is. Anyone who pays close attention to what James Mortin says when discussing sex based rights, JM always pivots & talks about sex characteristics when others talk about biological sex. The inclusion of that specific wording has JM stamped all over it. You have primary & secondary sex characteristics & when someone wants to claim to be a woman or female & has plastic surgery to alter some 'sex characteristics', to JM that equates someone male who undergoes any body modifying surgery places that person in the same biological sex category as females. You then extrapolate that to intersex or DSDs i.e. natural differences of sexual development & have both DSD & surgically modified people placed in the same category. So the thought experiment ends up codified in law & trans people get legally protected from multiple angles & hold quite a lot of legal backing should anyone ever tackle any aspect of their legal demands from any perspective.

If you ever wondered why the Equality Network claimed scotgov funding while JM actually was behind the push on conflating DSDs with trans ID, this is part of it. When you control the narrative & claim to be the authority voice on discrimination, you get a lot of free reign on shit like this.

The multi-pronged approach of the likes of JM never stops.

Yeah Morton always there and always getting funded. Don’t know why Morton gets this.

What are Morton’s qualifications for all this policy work Morton does

Thanks NonnyMouse1337 – I think I just hadn’t grasped this (or it never occurred to me as so totally illogical)

“This is the next big issue we need to examine in Scotland.
If the 'protected characteristics' listed in Hate Crime bills are not based on the Equality Act, who decides what these protected groups are? Lobby groups with the most money and loudest voices and influence?”

Sorry for you MintyMabel I cant think of anything more evident than the attempt to erase women and the reality of biological sex. So it is anything but “hyberpole” – this is anger. And I posted it here as this meant to be a thread about women’s rights.

Another reminder of how powerful unaccountable lobby groups can be, but also a reminder that this chipping away at the meaning of language has been going on for decades now.

Even the anger when universities caved in and changed Women's Studies for Gender Studies thanks to well place queer activists in academic networks, could never have alerted us to the fact that we would find ourselves here 40 years later having to stop the very groups that were the creation of queer politics in universities, from not just erasing women from "Studies" but from politics and the law.

So brilliant that forwomen.scot have been so consistent in challenging this.

Does anyone know how intersex people in Scotland have reacted to the fact that, since 2009, Scottish law has been defined them as transgender?

DSD Families are registrered in Scotland & afaik they are not aligned with EN but have a chance in the next round of funding to get that from scotgov over EN to get those who have diagnosed DSD or family with DSD funded & independently represented instead of being used for other agendas. I hope they're going to be successful.

I have serious reservations about any “hate crime” laws. They are a threat to free speech, and closely resemble the old blasphemy laws.

Absolutely agree with your post. This is why we need organisations like bloody Liberty - except they have tanned the KoolAid most enthusiastically! It's shocking, and I wish more people would see how fragile our civil liberties our, how important they are, how easily impinged upon.

DSD Families is clear that Intersex is not the same as transgender. More info here: dsdfamilies.org/faq

sorry, DSD is not the same as transgender. The FAQs there explain all the terms pretty clearly.

Here's a real world example of someone deploying something very similar to variations in sex characteristics in order to mislead:

twitter.com/MujerGuerrera78/status/1259076592367738880

In other words, a male body said to be at odds with a feminine "gender identity" is a variation in sex characteristics.

This clip is an example of JM's pivot when being asked about sex, and answering a different point on sex characteristics https://twitter.com/bbcscotnine/status/1208139377756561408?s=21

It's so subtle, the presenter doesn't even pick up on it. This is what JM does, repeatedly, and JM knows exactly how to keep that confusion & misinformation up, to avoid clarity of language & definitions. Stephen Whittle's work on the GRA 2004 & EA2010 specifically states that their preference on words & language was that sex & gender be conflated so as to avoid clear distinction between gender reassignment (with a GRC) & sex (women aka adult human females) because then the application of the SSEs under the EA2010 would be very easy & straight forward to implement. Based on sex, it's a no-brained what SSEs mean & who is entitled to use SS spaces/facilities/services/support. Conflate sex & gender, women lose their single sex spaces/facilities/services/support.

This is why language matters in this debate & why shit like this hate crime bill needs a thorough breakdown & challenge. I don't doubt that those with DSDs have faced issues but the only harassment & abuse I've ever seen online of those with DSDs has been from trans activists. Funnily enough, Equality Network - who claimed funding to be able to "develop a shared understanding of intersex equality, rights and inclusion priorities in Scotland" have never addressed this area of harassment & discrimination that people with DSDs face as a result of the interference of orgs like EN who use 'intersex' to further their trans rights crusade.