These Are Not Our Crimes

[EmpressLangClegInChair]

TheUterati, who was one of the first FWR women to be banned under the New Rules, has made a video listing over 70 male prisoners who claim to be women and their crimes. It's not an easy watch but it's a very important one.

Not really the point being made. Feel free to start a new thread in AIBU about whether saying people go to prison for not paying tv licences is reasonable, or a semantic error.

Women in Prison:

Key Facts
A round-up and latest key statistics regarding women affected by the criminal justice system.
(extract)
Women and sentencing

Most women entering prison to serve a sentence (80%) have committed a non-violent offence.
Theft offences accounted for 37% of all immediate custodial sentences given to women in the year leading up to September 2019.
Most women entering prison serve short sentences; prison sentences of less than 12 months accounted for 82% of all sentenced first receptions of women in the year leading up to September 2019.
Most of the rise in the female prison population can be explained by a significant increase in the severity of sentences. Between 2009 and 2013 the number of women sentenced for theft from a shop decreased by 4% whilst the number sentenced to custody increased by 17%.
In 2017 TV licence evasion accounted for 30% of all prosecutions for women, but only 4% for men. 72% of the 136,550 defendants prosecuted for TV license evasion in that year were women.

Women prisoner backgrounds

Seven in 10 women in prison reported that they had been a victim of domestic violence.
53% of women in prison report having experienced emotional, physical or sexual abuse during childhood.
31% women in prison have spent time in local authority care as a child.
Women in custody are five times more likely to have a mental health concern than women in the general population. 67% of women in prison reported that they had a mental health problem. 25% of women in prison (compared to 4% of the general population) have symptoms indicative of psychosis. 49% of women in prison compared to 15% of the general population are identified as suffering from both anxiety and depression.
81% of women in prison were unemployed in the four weeks before custody. (continues)

www.womeninprison.org.uk/research/key-facts.php

The Key Facts on the "Women in Prison" website (attached to my previous post) are based on research published by the Prison Reform Trust. In the cases of TV Licences, the original source is the 2015 Ministry of Justice Report "Women in the Criminal Justice System".

"It is important to note that while many women appear in Court following arrest and charge a great many more women are prosecuted for non-criminal offences. This includes TV licence evasion, welfare fraud, fare evasion and sanctions relating to the non-attendance of children at school. Because these cases are not dealt with by the police there is no option to use an out of court disposal.

• TV licence evasion accounted for 36% of all prosecutions for women, but only 6% for men. In 2015, 70% of all the 189,349 defendants prosecuted for this offence were women.13"

13. Ministry of Justice (November 2016), Women in the Criminal Justice System 2015

From "Why focus on reducing women’s imprisonment?"
Prison Reform Trust briefing February 2017
www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/Portals/0/Documents/Women/whywomen.pdf

OldCrone is correct, of course. Imprisonment is due to failure to pay the fine set by the court as penalty for "TV Licence evasion".

After your case has been decided

If you’re found guilty, you’ll be sent a ‘notice of fine’ telling you how much you need to pay.

This may include:

• A maximum fine of up to £1,000 (up to £2,000 if you live in Guernsey)

• England and Wales: a victim surcharge of 10% of the fine or £30, whichever is greater

• In Northern Ireland an offender levy of £15.

• In the jurisdictions in which TV Licensing conduct the prosecution, prosecution costs of around £120 (if you plead not guilty this cost could be much higher)

• Compensation for a period of unlicensed use if it is requested.

You will also still have to buy a TV Licence, if you need one.

You can’t be sent to prison for a TV Licensing conviction, but you can be sent to prison for deliberately refusing to pay court fines.

www.tvlicensing.co.uk/visit

Seeing as the thread topic is crime in general, rather than the whys and wherefores of TV Licences, The Prison Reform Trust BROMLEY BRIEFINGS - PRISON FACTFILE is stuffed full of referenced facts and figures - the latest issue is Winter 2019:

www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/Publications/Factfile

Download "Bromley Briefings Prison Factfile Winter 2019 (full version)"
www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/Portals/0/Documents/Bromley%20Briefings/Winter%202019%20Factfile%20web.pdf

You’d have to try pretty hard though! Usually these rare cases involve months and months of bad decisions and ignored letters etc.

Prosecution for failing to pay a TV licence can result from one instance of allowing a TV licence inspector into your home or replying to one of their threatening letters. Prosecution for non-payment of the resultant fine can then occur as soon as a default is made on the fine. And if you can't afford to buy a TV licence, the chances of not being able to afford the fine are pretty high.

Ignoring letters only results in further letters being sent on a monthly basis. If you ignore the letters and don't let the inspectors in, further action seems unlikely (according to the author of this website).

www.bbctvlicence.com/index.htm

And nearly 200,000 prosecutions in one year is not 'rare'. It seems they have plenty of prosecutions to deal with from the people who self-incriminate and/or let the inspectors in, without following up on the people who ignore all the threats (who may or may not be watching broadcast TV anyway).

You get offered a payment card with fortnightly payments now, instead of being prosecuted. I got caught a couple of years ago, the guy didn't even come in. I used to pay at my local paypoint , when I topped up my electric key. No one should be in jail now for not having a TV licence.
My mate is terrible for not paying bills, she got caught wiring her key meter. She just has to pay a small amount off the arrears each week.

OldCrone - I am beginning to wish I had never mentioned TV Licences but thank you for that info and link - very interesting!

I will second Ereshkigalangcleg''s suggestion that further discussion of TV Licences is better taken elsewhere.

Perhaps better still, held in check until Government publishes the outcome of the recent Closed consultation on decriminalising TV licence evasion - 5 February 2020
www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-decriminalising-tv-licence-evasion/consultation-on-decriminalising-tv-licence-evasion

R0wantrees - thank you for the "Key Facts" from the "Women in Prison" website.

A recent publication and video by the Women's Budget Group "Commission on a Gender-Equal Economy" are relevant both to the main reasons why women are imprisoned and to the decisions made to house violent male offenders in women's prisons:

Spirals of Inequality
Tuesday 21st April 2020

"Unpaid work is at the heart of gender inequality. Women do 60% more unpaid work and earn 43% less than men.

- On average, women carry out 60% more unpaid work than men.
- Women aged 26-35 do the most unpaid work (34.6 hours per week compared with 17.4 hours for men aged 26-35)

wbg.org.uk/analysis/spirals-of-inequality/

Institutions, policies and laws continue to be based on men’s needs

"The pace of change to address gender inequality has been slow. In some cases, such as with austerity policies, inequalities have even become more entrenched. With men over-represented in senior decision-making positions in politics, the civil service, business, law and the media it is not surprising that institutions, policies and laws are still failing to address the needs of women and progress on gender equality is slow. At the start of 2020, women accounted for 34% of MPs and 30% of Cabinet Ministers, 21% of senior civil servants participating in the Civil Service Board, around 25% of senior Judiciary members, 21% of national newspaper editors, 29% of FTSE 100 directors and just 6% FTSE 100 CEOs. Fawcett’s Sex and Power 2020 report found that women of colour are even more grossly under-represented. It showed that there are currently no women of colour in the highest levels of the civil service or among FTSE 100 CEOs, and there has never been a person of colour on the Supreme Court since its formation in 2009.

A number of factors contribute to the ongoing under-representation of women in senior roles. Unpaid caring by women plays a role by slowing career progression and constraining opportunities for involvement in public life. Women also face discrimination as a result of conscious and unconscious bias, with those in positions of authority making assumptions about women’s likely caring responsibilities, behaviours and leadership potential. This can lead to women being overlooked for promotion and senior roles. Finally, harassment and network effects remain barriers to women participating at senior levels. Without concerted efforts to address these barriers in order to increase women’s representation at senior levels in business and public life, it is unlikely that we will see change on the scale that is required to address gender inequality in the UK. Decisions around policy, laws and spending will continue to be informed largely by the perspectives of men and, therefore, address, first and foremost, the needs of men."

From: "Spirals of Inequality - How unpaid care is at the heart of gender inequalities" April 2020
wbg.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Accompanying-paper-FINAL.pdf

Video: "Spirals of Inequality"
vimeo.com/409866367

That video is a very good short "cartoon" illustration of the "spiral of inequality".

When some people, usually men, blame the current insanity on feminism while at the same time other people, usually men, wail, "How have the feminists allowed this to happen!? Where are the feminists opposing this!?" they need reminding:

"With men over-represented in senior decision-making positions in politics, the civil service, business, law and the media it is not surprising that institutions, policies and laws are still failing to address the needs of women and progress on gender equality is slow. . . . Decisions around policy, laws and spending will continue to be informed largely by the perspectives of men and, therefore, address, first and foremost, the needs of men."

It’s an interesting claim that decisions around spending will be male-centric. You’d expect it to reflect the principle customer which is us women in terms of spending.

RabidChinchilla said:

"My main frustration with the GC debate is that key concerns like this [the OP] often get lost (and diluted) . . . I think the avoidance of housing male sex offenders with vulnerable females is enough justification"

In that case, how about walkin the walk and not taking any and every opportunity to divert this discussion. First TV Licences and now, apparently, shopping?

In that case, how about walkin the walk and not taking any and every opportunity to divert this discussion. First TV Licences and now, apparently, shopping?

I didn’t bring up either of those topics. In fact, I think you mentioned spending. My point though was that it just becomes the boy who cried wolf when we have a new thread every time a TRA so much as farts.

Most people now see it as a ‘terfs vs TRAs’ thing and I don’t think that’s helpful to the cause as this is an issue which affects a much broader spectrum of women, many of whom probably dismiss it as online bickering atm. I’m sceptical whether these insular discussions with all the self referential FWR lingo actually help much. Of course, some posters are active in real life but I think many just froth about trans people on here and don’t really accomplish much else.

I’m sceptical whether these insular discussions with all the self referential FWR lingo actually help much. Of course, some posters are active in real life but I think many just froth about trans people on here and don’t really accomplish much else.

The video in OP is an important piece of work done by theUterati former regular FWR poster.

The clear & distinct sex-based offending patterns were recognised a long time ago.

The government has a specific sex-based female 'Offenders Strategy' in order to better recognise, manage and meet the needs of women in the criminal justice system.

Published June 2018:
Female Offender Strategy
Ministry of Justice Female Offender Strategy for women in the criminal justice system.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719819/female-offender-strategy.pdf

See also policy paper published 28 February 2019 :

'Management and supervision of men convicted of sexual offences'
The action plan in response to the thematic inspection of work with men convicted of sexual offences by HMI Probation Inspection.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/management-and-supervision-of-men-convicted-of-sexual-offences

Of course, some posters are active in real life but I think many just froth about trans people on here and don’t really accomplish much else.

Even those who just discuss these issues on here are not 'frothing about trans people'. They are discussing women's rights and the removal of women's rights by a movement which is led by men and supported by women who hate women.

Some of those people who hate women identify as trans, some do not. If you think people on here are simply 'frothing about trans people' you haven't been paying attention.

I was perhaps little unfair as some posters on here are undoubtedly very involved and knowledgeable around these issues. It's all the petty Twitter bickering that puts me off.

a movement which is led by men and supported by women who hate women.

I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. There are undoubtedly plenty of young women who support trans people because they want to be inclusive and likely because they know young trans individuals personally (as opposed to the 'middle aged perverts with AGP' stereotype we usually see on here). Whether or not they're misguided, I doubt they hate women.

They may not hate women but they put them second.

Tbh I find the 'if you disagree with GC feminists you're a misogynist' argument very similar to the mirrored argument that 'if you disagree with TRAs you're a transphobe'.

They may not hate women but they put them second.

But many believe transwomen to effectively be women. Certainly in the way they should be treated if not ultimately in biological terms.

This is a thread about a very specific subject which deserves a proper discussion. Please have the courtesy to take your "FWR is awful" derail to a different one, if you must.

But surely if a view cannot be explained rationally it runs the risk of being regarded as irrational?

I'm not a huge fan of the TRA movement but it's a bit of a claim to say that people who don't share the GC stance hate women.

You know exactly what you can do with your froth.

There are undoubtedly plenty of young women who support trans people because they want to be inclusive and likely because they know young trans individuals personally (as opposed to the 'middle aged perverts with AGP' stereotype we usually see on here).

Are these young women keen to be inclusive towards the male prisoners mentioned in the OP? Are you?

But many believe transwomen to effectively be women. Certainly in the way they should be treated if not ultimately in biological terms.

So do you believe it's right to treat the male prisoners in the OP as women, send them to women's prisons and record their crimes as committed by women?

I'm not a huge fan of the TRA movement but it's a bit of a claim to say that people who don't share the GC stance hate women.

Putting violent male offenders in women's prisons shows a complete disregard for the safety of the female prisoners. Why would anyone who doesn't hate women think this is a good idea?

I don't believe in magic, fairies or make-believe. Wishing doesn't make something come true. I believe in truth. Bullies and liars have always got my blood up. I am over the age of 5.

But many believe transwomen to effectively be women. Certainly in the way they should be treated if not ultimately in biological terms.

The point of the video by TheUterati is to demonstrate the serious consequences of mandating/colluding with a belief that TAWAW. These are consequences which vulnerable women in prison have suffered.

It is not an academic exercise.

OP EmpressLangClegInChair wrote,
'These Are Not Our Crimes

TheUterati, who was one of the first FWR women to be banned under the New Rules, has made a video listing over 70 male prisoners who claim to be women and their crimes. It's not an easy watch but it's a very important one.

But many believe transwomen to effectively be women. Certainly in the way they should be treated if not ultimately in biological terms.

Agreeing that men should take over women's sport, that violent rapists should be imprisoned with incarcerated women as part of their sentence, and that women have no right to withhold their consent to be touched, looked at, etc, by the opposite sex, is certainly woman hating. And is, of course, not treating transwomen like women at all, but treating them like entitled, privileged men.

But many believe transwomen to effectively be women. Certainly in the way they should be treated if not ultimately in biological terms

Then where do they draw the line? You can’t realistically say that the nice, non-threatening ones should be accepted as women and the nasty ones shouldn’t.

Either women can be born with penises or they can’t, and if they can then everyone in the video has the right to be in a women’s prison. If they can’t then nobody with a penis should be using women’s spaces.