Scottish Government's Hate Crime bill

[Dances]

stephendaisley.com/2020/04/27/law-is-a-blunt-tool-for-fighting-hatred/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Chilling and totalitarian. You would have thought they had learned something with the Named Persons bill and the Football bill

Is Scottish Gov pushing this through during COVID crisis? Anyone know of the timetable for this?

"I think this is actually an Independence ploy"

i think opposite.
there's little possibility of sottish independence.
then there need some tool for control society, tone, media, political
environment.

that 'hate crime law' will be apply differently case by case.

porno?: that's not hate crime, free speech.
'i think 'there's man and woman': that's hate crime.

As well as being victims of regulatory capture, the SG is awash with liberal narcissism - it's all about them and how morally superior, inclusive and progressive they look campaigning to change laws and conventions and fuck what ordinary folk at a grass roots level think or want.

This is underlined by the way these supposed "public" consultations are conducted - no one seems to know they are happening and they're as far from accessible and inclusive to the man/woman in the street as it's possible to be.

As well as being victims of regulatory capture, the SG is awash with liberal narcissism - it's all about them and how morally superior, inclusive and progressive they look

Thanks for the expression 'liberal narcissism', Terry. It's what 'woke' really means, isn't it? Very useful to have a clear definition. It's hard to argue against wokeness without sounding anti-progress. But when you nail it as narcissism, you're dragging it out into the light.

I wish I could take credit for "liberal narcissism" Thinking but it's actually a quote from Trevor Phillips.

When I read that piece quoted here I had an "aha!" moment too - luxury beliefs and liberal narcissism are the scourge of our times for sure.

I wish I could remember what the original article was - it obvs had something to do with Suzanne Moore - but I can't!

Why are one tiny group of congenital malformations (‘intersex’) but not any other eg facial deformities, birth marks, extra digits?

I thought they'd kicked the GRA Bill into the long grass and now this. We can't even protest like we did outside Holyrood before, this is insane. Nicola Sturgeon isn't stupid, how can she not see how dangerous this is for women? She has a dream of an Independent Scotland progressive paradise but this is anything but.

terryleather

The quote comes from a Times article, archived here: archive.vn/ADzSK

Thank you BetsyM00, I can bookmark it now.

I wish I could take credit for "liberal narcissism" Thinking but it's actually a quote from Trevor Phillips.

Trevor Phillips! Everything I hear about him makes me like and respect him more. No wonder the liberal narcissists currently controlling the Labour Party want nothing to do with him.

The SNP are deeply illiberal. I'm always astonished when I see left-wing liberals in England fawning all over Sturgeon etc.

If you are not familiar with recent laws they've passed up here, Google Named Person and the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act (both have ended up being junked but not for want of SNP Ministers clinging desperately for years, munching up public resources to pursue them).

I agree how. I have voted for them in the past although I'm on the fence re. Independence. But I'm absolutely done with them now. The Named Person bill was a total shitshow

Not sure if this is appropriate here but someone sent me this this morning.
Noam Chomsky said in 1998:

The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum—even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.

Exactly Now NP was horrific & the parallels with GRA are strong - lots of getting ahead of the law, not listening to the public (or professionals) etc

I'm pleased Murdo Fraser tackled this bill in his Scotsman column. He particularly mentioned concerns that saying transwomen are men could be sern as hate speech www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/scotlands-hate-crime-and-public-order-bill-must-not-stifle-free-speech-murdo-fraser-msp-2552473

I think that quote from Chomsky is highly relevant Cunty

And yes, I've always been at the idea of the SNP being liberal and progressive - they certainly seem to identify as that though!

Can someone explain the Named Person thing to me please? I’ve seen it discussed here before but not sure what it’s supposed to be in aid of?

Lang
It was a proposal where all children in Scotland would have a 'Named Person' assigned to them. A sort of personal social worker, could be teacher etc. Basically so that all parents would not be teach their children non approved material. Can you imagine what would happen to children of GC parents?

Named Person scheme caused a LOT of argument.

It was someone who was appointed to be responsible for a child's wellbeing - usually a health worker/head teacher. In principle it was probably not a terrible idea - a sort of simple way to try and make sure no chld fell through the gaps.

But I think the implementation of it (the legalities, I expect) really freaked a lot of people out, there were rumours that it was somehow undermining the family relationship, etc, that kids who weren't conforming to a set agenda could be taken away from the family.

As ever, probably a grain of truth from both sides. I would guess (though my memory of it is patchy) that it was a generally not bad idea that was botched in execution, as with so much legislation.

Named Person

“The judges concluded that sharing private information at the level of ‘wellbeing’ “may in practice result in a disproportionate inference with the article 8 rights of children, young persons and their parents”.

The ruling noted that “the sharing of personal data between relevant public authorities is central to the role of the named person” (para. 78).
It then concluded that these information-sharing provisions:
• Were incompatible with the rights of children, young persons and parents under article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights;
• May in practice result in a disproportionate interference with the article 8 rights of many children, young persons and their parents, through the sharing of private information;
• Were “not within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament”, deeming the legislation “defective” and blocking it from coming into force.“

no2np.org/

In their verdict on the named person case, the judges said: “The first thing that a totalitarian regime tries to do is to get to the children, to distance them from the subversive, varied influences of their families, and indoctrinate them in their rulers’ view of the world. Within limits, families must be left to bring up their children in their own way.”

Fairly harsh words.

I can't understand why anyone thinks the SNP are progressive. Their first actions in this coronavirus crisis were to get rid of jury trials and FOI requests. They are an authoritarian party.

Graffiti - can you explain what you mean? I haven't heard about this

www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/23/good-riddance-to-the-named-person-scheme/

Titania Rules

mobile.twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1255811328809320449

Glad there is a thread on this as I had seen this and wanted to know more about it:

"The Scottish Government is committed to taking this opportunity to shape hate crime legislation so that it is fit for 21st century Scotland and, most importantly, affords sufficient protection for those that need it,” the justice minister explained. Astonishingly, women are not deemed in need of such protection. This is particularly odd given that “sex” appears in the 2010 Equality Act, and that sexual harassment and equal pay are frequently the source of legal disputes between employers and employees. Though women have suffered historic abuse and exploitation on the basis of sex, the bill neglects them, prioritizing “transgender identity” (which operates by self-declaration) and intersex conditions (most of which are not even visible to other people)."

www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/scotland-blasphemy-law-repeal-new-speech-restrictions-replace-old-ones/

Also, up thread, someone posted that they thought the GRA in Scotland had been kicked into the long grass. Not at all. The SNP have made it clear they are committed to changing it, and it is just on hold during the coronavirus crisis.

There was an impressions given that the Tories had pushed the Westminist GRA reforms into the long grass, and that somehow Boris couldn't be bothered with it.

But since then we know that Liz Truzz has said they will be published the results of that consultation this summer.

And despite the efforts of many women's groups - and of course mumsnet - I fear the results will show (be slanted like the survey itself) towards self identity.

So both in Scotland and Westminster think we should be thinking we missed the first skirmish (2004), put up a strong fight back in 2019, but must be prepared to keep up the battle in 2020.

(For all we know Carrie Symonds is woke and bending Boris' ear)

Linking discussion threads.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3903608-Does-Scotland-not-have-sex-as-a-protected-characteristic