Dr Jesicca Taylor on R4 Woman's Hour today, discussing her new book "Why Women Are Blamed For Everything: Exploring Victim Blaming Of Women Subjected to Violence and Trauma"

[R0wantrees]

"Why does society blame the victims of sexual violence rather than the perpetrators? Dr Jessica Taylor explains her research into how victim blaming works"
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000hgh7

"Overview

She asked for it. She was flirting. She was drinking. She was wearing a revealing dress. She was too confident. She walked home alone. She stayed in that relationship. She was naïve. She didn’t report soon enough. She didn’t fight back. She wanted it. She lied about it. She comes from a bad area. She was vulnerable. She should have known. She should have seen it coming. She should have protected herself.

Victim blaming of women is prevalent and normalised in society.

What causes us to blame women who have been abused, raped, trafficked, assaulted or harassed by men? Why are we uncomfortable with placing all of the blame on perpetrators for their crimes against women?

Based on three years of doctoral research and ten years of practice with women and girls, Dr Jessica Taylor explores the many reasons we blame women for male violence committed against them. Written in her unique style and backed up by decades of evidence, this book exposes the powerful forces in society and individual psychology which compel us to blame women subjected to male violence."
victimfocus-resources.com/products/why-women-are-blamed-for-everything-exploring-victim-blaming-of-women-subjected-to-violence-and-trauma-by-dr-jessica-taylor-special-edition-hardback-signed-by-author

twitter.com/DrJessTaylor/status/1253234149441318912

Soontobe60
That's nonsense and you know it. Rape is penetration by the penis, a disgust or tongue, women can and do rape. Just look at the huge number of cases of female teachers raping you boys in schools. The UK is an oddity as it's classes as made to penetrate, but that's just a feminist term for rape that makes it sound less that what it is.

When Dorian Gray rocks up and says you are talking nonsense.

If women are being raped in prisons by other inmates, those other inmates aint women. HTH.

But I can see you're not letting facts get in the way of some angry frothing.

So show us the statistics about

men killed by women
vs men killed by men
vs women killed by men,
vs women killed by women...

And then we’ll talk

Oh and how women are to blame for male suicide rates...

Yeah we're going to need to see the working out on that maths.

God, this would almost be funny if it wasn’t so depressing ( because the attacks on Jess Taylor show how many of these guys are out there and how dangerous they can be).
You’re accusing someone giving actual facts and statistics of bias and bigotry while you’re just spouting baseless supposition,. What evidence is there of men committing suicide because of abusive partners? There is a very detailed article on the Samaritans website re male suicide (which, I agree is an important issue). The reasons are complex, but I don’t remember any mention of abusive partners. Female on male abuse may well be underreported, but so is male on female abuse. The vast majority of rapes go unreported for example. However crime figures are not just based on reports to the police. Other sources such as anonymous surveys are used and still show male on female abuse is much higher (particularly sexual abuse) We need to be honest about this (as uncomfortable as that might be for some men) in order to try to solve the problem. Which I would hope any decent human being would want to do.

Back to the main topic anyway...

This has put me in mind of the prolific student date-rape drug rapists, who lured hundreds of men to his flat, drugged and raped them. Tragic as this was for the men involved, It was so good to see that the police worked very hard to insist that there was no blame/shame in what had happened, for men not to be afraid to come forward if they think it happened to them, to get mental health support if needed etc.

Wouldn’t it be nice if women got the same treatment instead of questions like “why were you that drunk, why did you go back to a random flat, what did you expect” etc?

It strikes me that there is stigma to victims of both sexes, women afraid they won’t be believed or blamed for not preventing it/saying no loud enough etc. Men suffering in silence because they (wrongly) feel shame about becoming a victim.

Honest discussion and removing victim stigma helps both sexes, but it isn’t a reason to deny the overwhelmingly large body of female victim experience because sometimes it happens to men, and very occasionally women can be the perpetrators

I'm sure the statistics are coming soon.

Well, actually, I know they won't, because as soon as FNUSNU finds them I'm sure they will be far too embarrassed to come back and own up to being wrong.

I predict there will either be a total flounce, and we'll never hear from FNUSNU again, or there'll be an attempt to move the conversation on to some other bollocks without any acknowledgement of previous bollocks.

I would love to be proved wrong though.

You won’t be. Dickkerr

Am thinking about all the women rapists running about raping.

Mind blowen

The question is, even if there were a billion of female rapists running around, why would a book about the victim blaming girls and women receive when they are abused be a bad thing?

Jessica Taylor has, of course, written extensively about the deluge of frothing men go instantly into WATM the second she publishes anything about female victims of male violence.

Even when she was in the process of telling them about the men's support group she was involved in.

Conversely when she talked about that group, not a single woman would say but hang on a minute, what about the women.

The tedious predictability of men demanding she centre them is depressing, FNUSNU.

rumbas - very interesting point . I remember having that discussion with my DS when this story broke - that there didn’t seem to be the same element of victim blaming. However, I noticed in one report that it was specifically highlighted that not all of the victims were gay. It was almost as if they were saying it would be worse if the victim was heterosexual. I wonder if that tells us something about attitudes to male on female rape. Do some men find it difficult to think of sex as a bad thing, even if forced, if it is the ‘sort of sex’ the victim usually likes?

I wonder if you surveyed the gay community about their experience of rape, I wonder if it would be just as bad or worse (in terms of reaction from the police, victim blaming, what did he expect etc)

And I think the profound discomfort that heterosexual men feel when imagining this happening to them should be a good starting point for them to understand the sense of violation that rape would feel like for anyone (male/female/gay/straight)

And to be fair, most decent men get it anyway.

Given that some men think inserting a tampon should give women an orgasm because "you're sticking something in there", no, I don't think that trying to imagine it happening to them would help, because they're convinced that we're just different and always enjoy having random things shoved into our orifices.

(I read a conversation once where a man was insisting that using tampons was basically masturbation, at which point I felt very sorry for any women unfortunate enough to be in his life.)