Covid 19 reporting app - public webinar

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

You may be aware of this reporting app. It's designed to "help slow the spread of COVID-19" by getting users to self report daily, based on a number of relevant factors (age, sex, location, symptoms etc).

HOWEVER, almost straight after releasing the first version of the app which simply asked for users' sex, the developers decided to add a pointless and potentially harmful "gender identity" question with no scientific justification or purpose whatsoever.

Recording someone as a woman [or a man] when they are the opposite sex skews facts and data, because we already know it affects each sex differently. Adding the potential for innocent OR bad faith actors to add error into what should be science-based research is an appalling way to proceed.

If any of the spokeswomen/experts from the various women's groups (Dr Nic? Dr FondofBeetles?) are free, the developers are holding a webinar this Thursday at 2pm BST

I'm sure they will be delighted to explain how knowing who has special womanly feelz will positively impact and add much-needed clarity to their research into this live and brutally fatal pandemic.

zoom.us/webinar/register/6915873908274/WN_X0KrlhfVTE-q7v539VKz8w

Here the version history of the app.

Note the glaring discrepancy between one question added, amongst all the other factual, usability and relevant updates.

Thanks for highlighting this! What purpose would collecting gender identity serve, I wonder?

I imagine it’s purpose is to encourage trans people to correctly record their sex( which they will take notice of) if they are also able to give their gender ( which can be ignored). As opposed to a single question which may lead trans people to answer with their gender rather than their sex and thus mess up the results.

I thought some trans people insist that their sex is the one they identify with - hence the vocal demands from trans rights campaigners that things like the census should allow them to mark sex as they wish instead of it being a factual record. (This is in addition to asking a question on gender identity!)
So if you ask for sex, you will get a certain proportion who will mark it based on their subjective feelings anyway.

I can't remember if the app asks for your 'sex at birth', which seems like a sensible way of obtaining the correct data.

What might be better to ask instead of gender identity, is whether the male or female in question has taken or is taking additional hormones, whether same sex or cross sex - I wonder if such a regimen might increase or decrease any complications from covid-19 infections. 🤔

If they ask for gender identity in addition to sex, I don't see a problem. It's probably not v useful information medically, but it's pretty harmless information to gather and it might avoid pointless protests.

If they ask about gender identity instead of sex, then you've a big issue.

Hi

Trans (male ones, I don't discuss transM) don't deal with their sex, do they? It's all about gender with them.

It's OK if they wish to fool themselves, but skewing actual data, being used for research in service for the nation is a different matter entirely.

I just don't see a way to police it. They'll fill it in how they feelz.

Thank you for this info @BuzzShitbagBobbly

I signed up for this when it first started, before they were got at. I added husband today as it encourages you to add other household members. It asked him "what sex were you assigned at birth". Was it random? Did the midwife flip a coin?

I've emailed them about this but didn't get any response.

I imagine it’s purpose is to encourage trans people to correctly record their sex( which they will take notice of) if they are also able to give their gender ( which can be ignored). As opposed to a single question which may lead trans people to answer with their gender rather than their sex and thus mess up the results.

You'd have to be a very rare breed of arrogant to snub (or mess with) a genuine crowdsourcing effort to help understand a global pandemic, on the basis it hurt your feelings by asking about a material fact and not your special internal essence...

It's OK if they wish to fool themselves, but skewing actual data, being used for research in service for the nation is a different matter entirely.

A lot more succinct than my waffling on!

They were got at, and have ignored emails and tweets from hundreds of women.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3865149-Zoe-has-gone-woke?pg=1

I signed up for this the other day and the questions were

• what sex were you assigned at birth?
• what gender do you identify as?

The first is annoying but I suspect the wording most likely to result in someone correctly putting their natal sex ("this isn't what I think I am, they ASSIGNED it to me").

The second has an 'other, please specify' option which give you enough space to put "my sex is female. Gender is nonsense" which I enjoyed.

I have signed up to this app. It asks for

Sex (assigned to you when you were born.)

The gender you identify with.

That is exactly how it was written.

If they ask for gender identity in addition to sex, I don't see a problem
They may as well ask for our favourite colour for all the use it is. And in fact they missed a trick in their rush to pander to the ideology lobby.

If a relevant response combination ("sex: male, GI: woman") then triggered a question about additional hormones being taken, that would add scientific validity, as NonnyMouse1337 suggested.

(But even so, we're talking about minute fractions of fractions of the population here, and as noble as it seems to try and cover every base, we don't know enough about the basics of it yet. So maybe we should start there and then extend research scopes once we have the luxury of knowledge?)

I've emailed them about this but didn't get any response
So they added it on demand, but can't be bothered to explain what worth it adds when they are directly asked? Colour me shocked.

I withdrew because of this. There is no need for any question other than birth sex. Makes me doubt how scientific they are being, especially as they changed the questions after data had already been collected.

In response to some emails/tweets, they did provide some waffle about hormones. Yet there are NO questions about hormonal contraceptives or HRT. Funny that.

Well, if anyone fancies trying to get a straight answer from this bunch of truth twisting twits, join the webinar on Thursday:

zoom.us/webinar/register/6915873908274/WN_X0KrlhfVTE-q7v539VKz8w

I emailed them about this and a bug I found in the app. Pointed out that it undermined their credibility. I am really cross and disappointed in them (but sadly not surprised).

I wonder if the gender question was to meet a funding requirement around equality

They intimated it was to align with the USA version WhatTheFrock

I would decline to participate in a public health data gathering exercise which gathered 'gender identity' information, even if this was intended to be a false front and the data intended to be ignored.

The risk of outcomes being reported as "women were x% less likely" or "it was found that men..." and no certainty that this wasn't 'identity' data used in place of sex data is just far too great.

After all, the NHS also collect 'current gender' data which was never intended to supplant their sex data. But it did. It does.
Scratch the surface of any 'sex' data analysis produced by the NHS, and you discover it's all about identity, not actual biology.

If you don't want to risk your stats being corrupted by immaterial, delusional bullshit that allows males to be recorded as female and vice versa? Don't offer to collect that bullshit in the first place.

People are dying in their thousands. Men are at greater risk than women. It's really time to grow the fuck up now and stop every trace of the indulgent pretence. There's no alternative to sex. None.

Exactly Barracker, exactly.

YY Barracker

Deleted the app. I'm not able to accept "gender identity" framed as a relevant marker as part of a scientific study like this. It's political and has no place in any of it. It also promotes the assumption that everyone has a gender identity and I'm simply not supporting that.

I emailed them too and received the following reply
Dear Tarty
As you can imagine, someone is always upset by the way these questions are handled. We have not removed the option to state your sex as male or female so this does not impact your data. We have only adjusted wording and added the ability to put what you identify with as an attempt to gather valid data and include all individuals.

We are working with some of the top world-renowned researchers to make sure these questions are accurate and scientifically valid. We hope you understand.

Kind regards,
Covid Team

I don't really know what to make of it other than 'we just want to be nice and include eveybody'. 🤔