When, oh when, will the tide turn?

[IchbineinBerlinner]

I've been waiting and waiting for people to wake up to trans ideology. I've had complaints against my work. I've been blacklisted by organisations I used to work with. This is all coming to a head for me professionally speaking and I am so tired of waiting for people to understand what is going on. I have a tendency to be over-positive, so I'd like to hear Mumsnet's views: am I mad to think that this madness will stop soon?

R0wan that FOI outcome I hope will create more attention on this issue. But honestly, if a Minister is talking about male rapes taking place in women’s prisons because of MOJ policy, FGS what more needs to happen for it to be reversed?

But honestly, if a Minister is talking about male rapes taking place in women’s prisons because of MOJ policy, FGS what more needs to happen for it to be reversed?

Absolutely and notable that Rory Stewart is a former MP & Prisons Minister (9 January 2018 – 1 May 2019)

FGS what more needs to happen for it to be reversed?

Sufficient pressure to scrutinise/expose the gross Safeguarding failures by the State?

Women to sue the MOJ?

3/11/19 Times by Nicholas Hellen

'Female prisoner takes government to court after alleged assault by transgender inmate'
(extract)
"A female prisoner who was allegedly sexually assaulted in jail by a male-bodied transgender inmate has launched a High Court action for a judicial review of government policy.

She says the transgender woman, who is serving a sentence for rape of a female, groped her breasts in the prison toilets. Shortly after the assault, the victim was moved to a different prison only to find her assailant had also moved there and would be sharing accommodation.

She is challenging the lawfulness of the government decision to place trans-women prisoners convicted of sexual and violent offences against women in women’s prisons without, it is claimed, adequately protecting female prisoners.

Her application, lodged in the High Court by Birnberg Peirce, a civil rights law firm, on October 21, also challenges government policy on a unit for transgender women at HMP Downview, a women’s jail in Surrey." (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/female-prisoner-takes-government-to-court-after-alleged-assault-by-transgender-inmate-n5wtg2nf7

Women to sue the MOJ?

Yes also sufficient pressure on MPs so that they recognise there is public demand to scrutinise MoJ?

Thanks @ROwantrees .. are you on Twitter? Iwonder do i follow you...

Her application, lodged in the High Court by Birnberg Peirce, a civil rights law firm, on October 21, also challenges government policy on a unit for transgender women at HMP Downview, a women’s jail in Surrey."

I had been wondering what happened to this case since I haven't seen any updates on it. Is it still only in the stage of being lodged or has it progressed further? Does anyone know?

IchbineinBerlinner no I think Twitter is best for occasional reading (& in small doses!)

Brand new to mumsnet just today. Saw the title of this thread and thought - given that it's in the 'feminist' topic section - that it would be about women's rights. Sadly it is a narrow minded and ill informed thread about 'trans ideology' or something daft and made up like that. Someone's right to exist should not be up for debate. Get informed and come back when you've got some more humanity people.

I do think that this Lesbian Visibility week will shine the light on just where 'be kind' has meant shutting down debate. The twitter verse has an abundance of 'lesbians have penises too and if you don't accept these penises as a lesbian, you are unkind transphobes'.

The whole 'denying the right to exist' mantra is utter nonsense. No one says that. The only 'enjoy your erasure' has - in fact - been directed towards women.

Pro women's rights aren't anti-trans rights. Maybe you need to get informed before launching into a finger-wagging.

I have been won over by emerjeanne's well argued points and now think that all little girls should be dressed from head to toe in pink. And am now going to go online and get some blue hair dye.

Saw the title of this thread and thought - given that it's in the 'feminist' topic section - that it would be about women's rights. It really is about women's rights and preventing these being eroded.

Sadly it is a narrow minded and ill informed thread about 'trans ideology' or something daft and made up like that. Someone's right to exist should not be up for debate. Get informed and come back when you've got some more humanity people.

I have really not seen any posts saying that anyone should not exist. Rather, that everyone has a right to exist, however a group of people should not have any rights that take established and hard fought rights away from others.

As a place to start, do you agree that people born as males and who have gone through male puberty and therefore have the biological advantages of larger lungs, heart and musculature should compete against women. By competing against women, they deprive women of opportunities such as scholarships leading to education, medals and job opportunities.

If you think that male born people should compete against females, why? Apart from it will hurt their mental health?

Or have you come on to wokescold us?

Brand new to mumsnet just today. Saw the title of this thread and thought - given that it's in the 'feminist' topic section - that it would be about women's rights.

Many people new to the issues discussed & the consequent impact on Safeguarding & women's sex-based rights have found these threads useful:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3335962-Frequently-Asked-Questions-FAQs-I-have-noticed-here

For gods’ sake. We have just been talking about reports of male people raping in women’s prisons

Someone's existence is not up for debate.

How can they someone not exist when they are physically there. Perhaps you were talking about ghosts or something. Or validation.

I started writing 'screen-bait' but got this jingle in my head. I'm going to be humming it all day...

(Screen bait) Hot dogs, Armour (screen bait) hot dogs
what kind of kids eat Armour (screen bait) hot dogs?
Fat kids, skinny kids,
kids that climb on rocks
tough kids, sissy kids
even kids with chicken pox
love (screen bait) hot dogs, Armour (screen bait) hot dogs
the dogs kids love to bite

For gods’ sake. We have just been talking about reports of male people raping in women’s prisons and yet we are the ones who lack humanity eh emerjeane?

On your right to exist point emerjeane, if anyone is being denied that right it is adult human females and juvenile human females, commonly known as women and girls.

Do come back when you are capable of an intelligent and informed discussion and debate, the hectoring finger wagging won't wash.

*Sadly it is a narrow minded and ill informed thread about 'trans ideology' or something daft and made up like that. Someone's right to exist should not be up for debate. Get informed and come back when you've got some more humanity people8

To be fair, it would seem that it is you who needs to be better informed. Do a bit of reading up yourself - perhaps on Queer Theory. ( could be a good place to start), and maybe also look up the dictionary definition of Ideology. Also a bit of brushing up on critical thinking skills would not go amiss. If you did all of that you would be aware that nobody is denying anyone's existence - we're just in disagreement about what this means & implies for women, as well as for our children and grandchildren.

This is why it is on the women's rights board.

Brand new to mumsnet just today. Saw the title of this thread and thought - given that it's in the 'feminist' topic section - that it would be about women's rights

Excellent perceptive powers! Well done.

Brand new to mumsnet just today.

Sure, Jan...

trans ideology' or something daft and made up like that

You do know how transphobic it is to say its daft and made up dont you

I do so love the way the emerjeane's of this world just suddenly and conveniently join MN to plop in tell us all off as if we are naughty little children and expect us to react with untold awe and wonder at their meaningless sound bites and scuttle off suitably chastised.

I always picture them sitting back, folding their arms with a supercilious grin on their faces thinking "That really told them", hate to burst your bubbly emerjeane but you didn't even make a dent.

Someone's right to exist should not be up for debate.

@emerjeanne A woman’s right not to be sexually assaulted by a male prisoner who is a rapist and peadophile in a woman’s prison should not be up for debate.

Clearly these women don’t exist to you.

It has become abundantly clear that the safety of poor, working class women in prison means absolutely zero to the woke left. Many of those women have been victims of sexual abuse and/or violence but they don't tick a fashionable diverse box so we don't have to "be kind" to them or "respect their right to exist". It's a shocking betrayal.