Feminism and mothers of sons

[DangerCat01]

Hi everyone,
I’ve been having a touch time and it’s making me wonder whether feminism or equality will never be possible because women give birth to boys whom they obviously love and these boys become men.
I’m the mother of one daughter whom I adore and would give my life to so presumably mothers of sons feel the same?

In the last month I’ve lost a big groups of friends and been dismissed from the Women’s Network at work for being a ‘terf’ and I’m wondering if the fight is worth it. Everyone seems so against me. Even my own mother and my sister seem to worship their sons more than their daughters. It’s weird. And creepy. I feel so sad and confused.

Tough time ffs!

I'm a mother to two boys and do not want anymore children. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't love my sons? By the way I love my boys a trillion times over 😀

Sorry, I'm not sure of your logic - why do boys being born to women mean feminism is impossible?
I find the concept of "worshipping" your children bizarre tbh!

I’m not sure what you’re asking.

Being a feminist doesn't mean loving men any less.

I have a son and daughters and am ensuring that they all understand what it is to be a feminist and why it is important.

And I definitely don't worship my children

In my experience it’s the mothers of daughters who are least feminist and more likely to propagate outdated stereotypes or get angry when the girls don’t live up to some kind of feminine ideal. The mothers of sons just get on with things and most of them have raised lovely boys / men.

Hi DangerCat01 and welcome to Mumsnet.

You are a lot braver than me as your posting history shows that you have literally been here for ten minutes and yet here you are starting off threads like an old hand.

I've been here over a year now and haven't dared start a thread!

Good for you!

Yes you’re right I’ve articulated my point very poorly.

Of course I’m not suggesting you shouldn’t love your sons? How on earth did you get that?

I’m just musing that because I’ve never had the experience of having a son and feeling that maternal love towards a male, I’m wasting my time being an activate feminist. It’s causing me a lot of greif and anger from other women.

Apologies, English is not my first language. I come from a Mediterranean country and we do tend to use phrases like adore and worship when talking about the love we feel for our children.

Perhaps you'd like to clarify what you mean. There's a lot going on in your OP and I don't know what to respond to.

I used to be a member about 10 years ago when my DD was a teen. Not been here for ages though and just lurk now and again. Particularly on the feminist board and the whole trans debacle.

I love my child. The fact he is a boy is irrelevant. And I don't worship him, he can be an obstinate little sod on occasion.

I am careful to teach him exactly the same as I would a girl. He knows very well that he has to pull his weight and that is gradually increasing as he gets older. I am determined to raise a kind, responsible and decent man.

Surely my actions work towards equality for all. Not against.

I’m just musing that because I’ve never had the experience of having a son and feeling that maternal love towards a male, I’m wasting my time being an activate feminist. It’s causing me a lot of greif and anger from other women.

Why would a feminist need to have a son to not be wasting her time?

I have two sons and they grew up with my feminist values. Boys brought up in a family with a SAHF and a career mum, as mine did, are unlikely to be sexist, plus my relationship with their DF was loving, respectful and equal.

Surely feminists will raise sons who see the world through a feminist lens? My own experience is that they may get peer pressure from boys with a very different perspective but that it has limited influence.

I have a son and daughters. I love them all but I don't worship any of them. And I am simply trying to bring my son up to be a good and capable man. I think trying to raise our sons to be good and capable men is pretty feminist, isn't it?

Yes ok let me try and break it down.

I think I’m really struggling with this lockdown. I’m still working in the NHS thank god, but I recently got asked to leave the Women’s Network at work for not agreeing that ‘anyone who says they are a woman is a woman’. I received a huge amount of vitriol and outrage for this opinion from other women/colleagues.
I have also lost a group of female friends because apparently I support hate crimes and I am a terf.

I don’t understand why and wondered if it is because they have sons.

I do love the men in my life but not in that fierce maternal way.

so sorry you're feeling so down DangerCat Im not a mother so cant comment on that but it's horrible losing friends and colleagues over the TRA issue. I do honestly think that the virus will change a lot of attitudes - people are going to be a lot less tolerant of the "meee me me meeee" and huffing about "literal violence" when someone doesnt use their preferred pronouns in a world where tends of thousands have died and millions more have less jobs/savings/their homes

What you're saying makes no sense. I am gender critical, I don't believe in self-ID and I have sons, what does the sex of our children have to do with what we can believe in the trans debate?

I love my adult sons. They've been taught to treat people women well, to do their share at home, to respect the ability and right of women to do any job they chose, as demonstrated by their mother and father.

I also share their occasion frustrations at being painted with the same brush as less decent men.

If that makes me a poor feminist I'm sorry (not sorry).

Hi OP, I'm a little confused but am hoping to understand a bit better. I think you are making two points, that mothers need to raise their boys to be feminists to give us a shot as effectively challenging the patriarchy and that you have personally suffered at the hands of 'feminism', having lost friendships and you sounds like you are feeling a bit blue.

Would this be fair to say? Please do correct or clarify, is like to engage with you on this.

Thanks for trying to understand, I feel like an illiterate idiot and probably shouldn’t have started this thread.

In the last month I have had a lot of grief for being a feminist from other women. In a big fucking way. Instead of hating or dismissing them, I’m trying to understand why and whether I am wrong. I wondered whether I am able to be such a staunch feminist because I have never loved a man as a mother.

@DangerCat01 I kind of see what you're saying, but that would be like saying a woman who hasn't had kids can't be a feminist. I would call myself a "staunch" feminist, that doesn't mean I don't love the men in my life- sons, husband, father etc. They are good people, but it doesn't take away from the fact women have been discriminated against since day dot. I feel a lot of pressure to raise my boys "right" and be part of the solution, not the problem, I'm also acutely aware of the disadvantages they will face as a direct result of their sex (though not to the same degree as women, of course).

I sometimes feel like a "fraud" in that I call myself a staunch feminist but have had sons, I don't have a daughter to "mentor" and some would even say I'm a fraud for marrying etc etc. There is no perfect feminist.

You are entitled to your beliefs, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

I don't think men can become women either and I love my sons.

The two things are not related.

I don't understand your logic here. You have been given a hard time because the pro self ID trans side is vicious and brutal and most if all, anti women. That does not mean the anti self ID case is anti men, far from it.

Maybe stay and read for a while?

having children is what made me a feminist (I mean, I broadly was before, but hadn't completely experienced the need for it, or examined my assumptions).

I am a mother of sons.

My sons continually show me how kids are kids and how ridiculous gender is as a concept, and how much sexism is entrenched in society - especially how we raise children. The same would be true I think if they were daughters.

I don't think that their being male makes any difference to my commitment to feminism - which is about me, not them.

Thanks everyone. I think I’m just feeling a bit bruised and trying to make sense of it all.

I trying to think that maybe if I had a son, I might have been one of those women who pop on a rape thread and bang on about false accusations. Or maybe I’d insist that my 10 year old should be allowed in the women’s changing room or whatever.

I have just recently received a huge amount of shit from other women and I’m gutted really. I’m just really sad.

So basically your theory is that mothers of sons will always put them first. As a mother of sons:

I don't worship them
I don't let them into women's changing rooms
I tell them about male violence
I tell them humans can't change sex

Anything else you secretly suspect me of doing!

Many of the best feminists I know have male children