Different expectations of male and female politicians?

[BitOfFun]

I was struck watching the excoriating self-abasement of the Scottish Chief Medical Officer- it was about ten minutes of grovelling. Then I thought of Boris and how he would get away with mumbling something and a sheepish chuckle.

Why?

It's probably true that, on average, men are less like to make a grovelling apology when caught out in a situation like this, but I'm not sure what we're meant to conclude from that

Well I suppose one could make a case that it is similar to women manipulatively bursting into tears when being criticised, whether justly or not, which men are less likely to do. I doubt that is a conclusion posters like the OP or Dance would like.

I'm really struggling to see what the point the OP and Dance are making.

A powerful, successful woman chose to make a complete balls up of her job. She then chose to respond by a "self-flaggelating" apology- a technique by no means used exclusively by women.

Her choice however was in some way not really her choice but foisted upon her by public opinion.

Then throw in as evidence of how she has been treated differently the spurious derailing criticising her male counterpart in England who has done nothing wrong.

Fair enough, I got it wrong about Hancock. I was under the impression that self iso was to continue for 14 days after symptoms end to prevent shedding the virus as per WHO guidelines. I wasn't aware NHS was advising reduced iso for the infected. Not desperate, just made a mistake, it happens sometimes folks!

I've noticed generally over the last week or so, people are becoming increasingly nasty about people who seem not to be following the rules. Not only in cases like this where there was clear not following direction, alo in cases where they really don't know the circumstances, it looks to me like a purity spiral is developing.

Her particular choice of response might have more to do with that dynamic.

I've noticed generally over the last week or so, people are becoming increasingly nasty about people who seem not to be following the rules.

It's called fear

I made the point several times Lass.

Maybe it is because the no personal attacks rule is being so blatantly and frequently violated. That is the one that people take personally, because it is personal.

I've noticed generally over the last week or so, people are becoming increasingly nasty about people who seem not to be following the rules. Not only in cases like this where there was clear not following direction, alo in cases where they really don't know the circumstances, it looks to me like a purity spiral is developing.

Yes I've noticed that. People getting grumpy about "hoarding" when they see a full trolley (someone might be buying for multiple households or have a big family or teenage sons), and all the calls to close parks (a more sensible solution might be to restrict numbers or only allow locals without gardens).

OTOH, Cadwalder's behaviour was inexcusable.

Sorry, Calderwood

I do wish the Feminist Boards were more supportive of female politicians. I reported the comments on here ( very personal, not political) about Lisa Nandy. The moderators agreed and were going to discuss the treatment of female politicians on the Feminist boards.

I do wish the Feminist Boards were more supportive of female politicians.

Because they are female ?

The moderators agreed and were going to discuss the treatment of female politicians on the Feminist boards.

Really?

When?

I do wish the Feminist Boards were more supportive of female politicians

For the umpteenth time Calderwood was a very senior civil servant- not a politician.

She ballsed up her job big time because she thinks the social distancing rules- which she herself as Chief Medical Officer and official Government spokesperson was promoting on Scottish Government adverts- don't apply to her.

She put Nicola Sturgeon in a very embarrassing position because she wasn't honest about what she had done resulting in Sturgeon issuing a supportive statement based on incorrect facts.

Calderwood then decided on a "self- flagellation" apology, presumably as an attempt to drum up sympathy. This however according to posters was somehow bizarrely foisted on her by public opinion. (As opposed to Calderwood's own choice to manipulate the situation)

The OP and certain other posters on this thread have attempted to drum up entirely misplaced sympathy for Calderwood. And at the same time throw in an unwarranted dig at Matt Hancock, who has done his job properly.

I reported the comments on here ( very personal, not political) about Lisa Nandy. The moderators agreed and were going to discuss the treatment of female politicians on the Feminist boards.

Was this in the context of Lisa Nandy MPs response to Dr Julia Long about men convicted of rape, including child sexual abuse?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3824781-Lisa-Nandy-says-child-rapists-should-be-in-women-s-prisons-if-they-identify-as-female

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3829111-Lisa-Nandy-interview-demonstrates-she-still-doesnt-understand-Safeguarding-yet-neither-do-the-other-Labour-leadership-candidates

mrsmuddlepies - "I reported the comments on here ( very personal, not political) about Lisa Nandy."

I don't recall seeing any "personal, not political" comments about Lisa Nandy on FWR.

Though perhaps I can take this opportunity to make a couple of "personal comments" and say that I think Lisa Nandy has lovely hair and good dress sense.

Are those the sort of "supportive" personal comments you think we should be restricted to when discussing female politicians on FWR?

"The moderators agreed and were going to discuss the treatment of female politicians on the Feminist boards."

Perhaps @Mumsnet could comment on this claim, which seems to suggest that the Mods agreed with you that FWR should be "more supportive of female politicians"?

Personally, I find it very hard to believe that @Mumsnet would adopt "Talk Guidelines" that required members to be unquestioningly supportive of all female politicians. That's not how politics works.

Incidentally, was that the reason you gave when you reported those comments, ie. that they were "personal" and "unsupportive of a female politician", and were the comments that you reported deleted by Mumsnet?

@Rowantrees and @MoleSmokes No, There were a number of comments being about her being as thick as shit after the interviews with Leader candidates. I thought they were really inappropriate and reported them. I am sure you can contact MN HQ to confirm

I remember now, she was described as thick as poo. It is a distasteful comment and patronising. Unacceptable, except as a term of abuse, which presumably it was intended to be.

mrsmuddlepies - "The moderators agreed and were going to discuss the treatment of female politicians on the Feminist boards."

"There were a number of comments being about her being as thick as shit after the interviews with Leader candidates. I thought they were really inappropriate and reported them."

"I remember now, she was described as thick as poo. It is a distasteful comment and patronising. Unacceptable, except as a term of abuse, which presumably it was intended to be."

Surely Mumsnet would not be considering such a clear breach of the Equality Act? Hard to imagine the Moderators being concerned enough to discuss "the treatment of female politicians on the Feminist boards" whilst regarding male politicians as fair game.

Now you have explained your objection, it sounds more like a complaint about the language used rather than the meaning behind the words.

How about, "seems unable or unwilling to engage intellectually with cogent arguments, carelessly and arrogantly dismissing factual evidence as bigotry, preferring instead to rely on self-serving anecdotal evidence which is then reported inconsistently"?

Is that "distasteful", "patronising" and "unacceptable, except as a term of abuse"?

The same could be said of many male politicians, of course. Lloyd Russell-Moyle MP springs to mind. Good to know, from what you say about concerns being limited to comments about female politicians, that the Mods would be unfazed if I were to describe Russell-Moyle as, for instance, "Thick as poo and talks shite".

Fair comment I'd say.