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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Different expectations of male and female politicians?

68 replies

BitOfFun · 05/04/2020 17:24

I was struck watching the excoriating self-abasement of the Scottish Chief Medical Officer- it was about ten minutes of grovelling. Then I thought of Boris and how he would get away with mumbling something and a sheepish chuckle.

Why?

OP posts:

DidoLamenting · 06/04/2020 11:09

Ok, what I'm saying is that you wouldn't get a man answering like that. She did 'choose' to obviously, but men don't choose to gave this level of mea culpa

I don't even think that is true. I can't think of specific examples but I have the notion that there have definitely been "oh woe is me, I'm so sorry (I've been found out)" non-apologies.

Dances · 06/04/2020 11:16

I didn't think she was doing 'oh wow is me', that's a personal interpretation.

I have never seen males apologising on a level like she did. You obviously disagree.

anothernotherone · 06/04/2020 11:23

There definitely are different expectations but I don't think the example in the opening post is relevant.

Different expectations around appearance and mortality absolutely. Tracy Brabin's dress is a better example, or Boris' age gap relationship and multiple children outside of marriage.

anothernotherone · 06/04/2020 11:23

Morality not mortality!

Dissimilitude · 06/04/2020 11:27

You do feminism no favours at all when trying to defend the indefensible just because the protagonist is a woman.

And Diane Abbot gets a huge amount of stick because she's Diane Abbot.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/04/2020 11:34

I have never seen males apologising on a level like she did. You obviously disagree.

Of course they do, usually when they've been caught out shagging their secretary or some other scandal.

As for men being treated badly - Ed Milli and anyone?His treatment by the press was disgusting.

Dances · 06/04/2020 11:34

Oh honestly, piss off with doing feminism no favours bollocks. I am not defending her or her actions, I have been clear about that. I am simply saying her falling on her sword was far more self flagalting than a man's.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/04/2020 11:36

I am simply saying her falling on her sword was far more self flagalting than a man's.

Probably because she thought if she did that the public would take pity on her and give her a second chance. Guess she thought playing the meek woman would win her some sympathy points?

Makeitgoaway · 06/04/2020 11:40

She's not a politician and she was caught out doing the exact opposite of what she (took good taxpayers' money to) advised the public to do.

I can't think of any high profile figure who could survive that and yet, despite that NS did try to keep her.

No, she hasn't had harsher treatment than anyone else.

DidoLamenting · 06/04/2020 11:43

Of course they do, usually when they've been caught out shagging their secretary or some other scandal

Yes exactly. There really isn't anything novel in the "self- flaggelation" method.

There are 3 options available aren't there?

Admit it with grace and go;
Grovelling self- flaggelation;
Brazen it out.

Makeitgoaway · 06/04/2020 11:43

I don't think most people would have tried to stay after making such a huge cock up, directly relating to theor job. It's not at all similar to an affair, which whilst it may make them unpleasant, doesn't impact on their ability to do the job. She put herself in a position where it was impossible to do her job with any credibility and yet she and NS wanted her to stay. That's why she had to make such a "big" apology.

HorseRadishFemish · 06/04/2020 11:45

I agree with dances.

It's like some people are not actually reading what you've said and are putting words into...

Oh! It's Straw-man awareness week! Silly me.

koshkatt · 06/04/2020 11:48

It's a bit of a non point, OP, because Boris hasn't done it as far as we know, ridiculous to assume he'd get away with it

This.

SerBrienneOfHouseTarth · 06/04/2020 11:54

I agree she did the right thing by resigning as her actions were so stupid and I think her apology was warranted.

For me it's the public response that's striking; for CC it has been severe and rightly so. On the other hand, where are the calls for Matt Hancock to resign after he was diagnosed with Coronavirus and only self isolated for a week before returning to work. Arguably much worse as he knew he is infected. Not sure if it's a sex thing, a political thing or a bit of both.

Makeitgoaway · 06/04/2020 11:58

The guidelines are to self isolate for 7 days if you have symptoms @SerBrienneOfHouseTarth. You surely can't believe Hanncock would have been allowed to get on with it if they weren't?

Whether 7 days is long enough is another matter but that is the current rule in UK

GrumpyHoonMain · 06/04/2020 11:59

Everything depends on context. If she had been going to a funeral or visiting NHS colleagues nobody would have minded. She was going on a jolly with her family which is why she’s an embarrassment and needed to resign

Makeitgoaway · 06/04/2020 12:00

Hancock is clearly well so there was no need for him to isolate longer than 7 days.

actual rules rather than made up rules

koshkatt · 06/04/2020 12:07

On the other hand, where are the calls for Matt Hancock to resign after he was diagnosed with Coronavirus and only self isolated for a week before returning to work. Arguably much worse as he knew he is infected. Not sure if it's a sex thing, a political thing or a bit of both

Seriously?

DidoLamenting · 06/04/2020 12:11

HorseRadishFemish straw man- it's the standard answer on here when one's argument is failing along with "MRA" and "you're a man"

Calderwood chose the grovelling self flagellation approach. It's not an approach which is unique to women.

The comparison just made by SerBrienneOfHouseTarth with Hancock is ridiculous. He is doing his job and sticking to the rules-why should he resign?

DidoLamenting · 06/04/2020 12:13

koshkatt
On the other hand, where are the calls for Matt Hancock to resign after he was diagnosed with Coronavirus and only self isolated for a week before returning to work. Arguably much worse as he knew he is infected. Not sure if it's a sex thing, a political thing or a bit of both

Seriously?

Smacks of desperation really.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/04/2020 12:26

So CC is in trouble for breaking the rules and another poster wants to see MH in trouble for abiding by the rules?

And posters are arguing that women are being treated unfairly.

Needmoresleep · 06/04/2020 12:32

I have no idea whether there is a gender bias when it comes to “the rules don’t apply to me”, but I would hope that people, regardless of sex, are called out.

The rules need to apply to all of us, otherwise they won’t work. And a CMO, male or female, should know that.

DangerCat01 · 06/04/2020 13:15

As an aside, I used to work with Prescott and he used to wear surfer shorts under the desk in the evenings but keep his shirt and tie on and order us massive pizzas.

NotDavidTennant · 06/04/2020 13:30

It's probably true that, on average, men are less like to make a grovelling apology when caught out in a situation like this, but I'm not sure what we're meant to conclude from that.

Jaxhog · 06/04/2020 13:37

It just goes to show that women in top positions can be just as breathtakingly arrogant and stupid as men. Equality of a sort I guess.

I was surprised that she didn't get a fine as well. That would have been a great leveller.

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