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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women who sell or exchange sex and coronavirus

205 replies

AnnaClick · 23/03/2020 16:41

Hi everyone. I’m Anna and I’m one of the people in Scotland working on the urgent task of making sure women involved in all parts of the sex industry or selling or exchanging sex are able to get access to support and information and financial help right now. We know this is a really difficult and scary time and we are urgently trying to get in touch with women. We need to hear what you need and what are the best ways to get that support and help to you. We also want to make sure that decision makers know this right now too. If you are involved then it would be great to hear from you, or if you know of someone then please pass on our info. I’m available at www.click.scot/voice/ or [email protected] I’ll also be on our online chat here www.click.scot/contact/ Tuesday 11-1 and Wednesday from 2-4pm. Our online support is also available every week day from 11am-3pm – you can check out twitter for up-to-date online support times @click_scotland Thanks.

OP posts:
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/03/2020 09:40
  1. If you want to help a woman who is hungry then you give her food, rather than offering to stick your penis in her mouth. If you do not understand why then, again, feminist forum, read the room.
Dzundza · 24/03/2020 09:45

Maybe it could be interesting to contact PROUD (www.wijzijnproud.nl) which is the network of sex workers in the Netherlands. The red light districts were closed down because of the Corona Virus so they must be dealing with some of the same problems. I don't know about other countries but it could be good to deal with this together.

GayeDalton · 24/03/2020 09:45

@prodigalkitten @sarcelle
None of these opinions are relevant to the facts that:

  1. Those who sell sexual access and services do not want to sell direct contact because of COVID19
  2. Nobody wants to buy direct contact because of COVID19
  3. Many human beings who sell sexual access and services have no income and no options because of COVID19
  4. It is impossible to survive without income,
  5. Some people want to help and have a right to do so.
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/03/2020 09:48
  1. Which is why I stated that I would be fine with attempt to get some sort of financial support put in place for anyone who's struggling as a result of Covid. That does not appear to be what the OPs organization is about.
GayeDalton · 24/03/2020 09:48

@Dzundra
There are initiatives all over the world started by sex workers themselves, the Netherlands was one of the first to go online, and there is some informal co ordination.

GayeDalton · 24/03/2020 09:53

@TheProdigalKittensReturn
This thread is about helping human beings survive COVID19 without income, no more, no less.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/03/2020 09:54
  1. Apparently some men do want to buy "direct contact" at the moment. But of course we shouldn't talk about that, because it makes men look bad and points towards the problems baked into the sex industry.

We understand that many women are experiencing high numbers of cancellations and fewer bookings than usual at the moment, which can make maintaining boundaries difficult.

(Does Gayle always communicate entirely in bullet pointed lists? That must make for some fun parties.)

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/03/2020 09:55

No, Gaye, you and the OP are not going to succeed in removing feminist analysis of the sex industry from a feminist forum, no matter how many condescendingly bullet pointed lists you post.

GayeDalton · 24/03/2020 10:05

@Theprodigalkittensreturn
I think you need to try and accept something.
I was 62 years old yesterday, I have been to hell and back so many times that I have frequent flyer miles on the shuttle.
I have never seen anything like COVID19.
The world that existed in December 2019 is already dead, gone for good, whatever happens, nothing will ever be the same again for anyone, including you, you have no control over that, I have no control over that.
If we get through this, and some of the people who read our words now will not make it, the world will never be the same again, and we have no idea what it will be like.
Until we find out, the best we can do is try to keep as many people alive as possible.

GayeDalton · 24/03/2020 10:07

@TheProdigalKittensReturn
You should probably check out the organization the OP comes from before saying any more
womenssupportproject.co.uk/

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/03/2020 10:10

I think you need to accept the fact that other people may not agree with you, and that repeatedly talking down to them is unlikely to convince them to do so. And also that, again, this is a feminist forum, therefore we are very likely to see things through that lens.

Covid19 is very serious indeed, but framing it as the zombie apocalypse is really not helping. People should be worried and should follow government guidance, and the next year or so is going to be massively challenging, but attempting to encourage blind panic and despair is, again, not helping.

BovaryX · 24/03/2020 10:12

Well said Prodigal some truly bloody absurd rhetoric on display....

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 24/03/2020 10:12

5. Clients of those who sell sexual access and services are as concerned as clients of hairdressers, beauty therapists and similar about COVID19.

In which case they should stay home and have a wank. Ideally they should take the time to reflect on the dangers that prostitution exposes women to.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/03/2020 10:13

If the majority of the population were to believe the end of days stuff Gaye is posting, how well do we think that would turn out? That kind of rhetoric is dangerous, to all of us, and is only going to make an already difficult situation worse.

I0NA · 24/03/2020 10:27

The women’s support project is NOT a pro prostitution organisation . They support women who are exploited through Prostitution.

They also work on challenging the demand and work with Zero Tolerance on porn and the risks to children and young people.

www.womenssupportproject.co.uk/content/challengingdemand/180/

Melroses · 24/03/2020 10:29

It would be better if organisations supported women who were desperate towards help and safer employment.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/03/2020 10:34

And again, I'm 100% in favor of the govt providing financial support to anyone who's struggling during this period, which may well end up being a huge number of people. Depending on how big the economic impact is we may well end up needing something on a New Deal kind of scale. The proposals already made to cover waged workers are a great start, but there needs to be something in place for those who fall outside that category too. In some places outside the UK there have been no evictions during the Covid19 crisis or no shutting off of utilities commitments made, and I'd like to see the same commitments made within the UK too.

I0NA · 24/03/2020 10:40

@Melroses

Routes Out Project

www.womenssupportproject.co.uk/directory/179,1,242/Routes-Out-.html

This is the organisation the Op works for

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 24/03/2020 10:44

I'm glad to hear that about the organisation Iona.

I think during this crisis women doing sex work should be supported as self-employed people. (Although I realise right now there is bugger all support and I hope that is rectified swiftly).

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/03/2020 10:47

I wonder what percentage of people count as self employed. I bet it's probably higher than most people would assume, including people in government.

pluiedeprintemps · 24/03/2020 10:55

@AnnaClick
Strass - the french sex worker union is also working on trying to get the government here to recognize that action needs to be taken.
strass-syndicat.org/actualite/coronavirus-conseils-infos-travailleuses-du-sexe/

MysticMeghan · 24/03/2020 11:45

Several weeks ago I had a thread about sex and coronavirus and received appalling abuse for even raising the subject. I am so glad that someone is looking out for sex workers. They are another form of gig economy and so their options for claiming benefits or SSP if they can't work are fairly limited. They are also now in a potentially life threatening situation. This is not something that condoms can protect you against.

The OPs comments seem to indicate that direct bookings are down, which I am relieved about from the sex workers perspective, although presumably they will be finding it hard as they still need to pay their rent and eat but at least if they don't have as many clients then their chances of contracting (and thus by implication transmitting) the virus are slightly reduced. I hope that some of these sex workers may be able to branch out into using social media and telephony/video which may continue to provide some income without the incumbent dangers of face to face contact.

The point of my original thread was that I was concerned for the wives and families of the men who are continuing to go to sex workers in this crisis. We all saw people at the weekend flocking to seaside resorts like nothing is happening. In the same way, there are still a load of very stupid cunts who will continue to seek out paid sex out and/or use Tinder even in the midst of a lockdown. But the stakes now are much higher. This isn't like bringing home a mild case of the clap to your unsuspecting wife or partner. These guys could be infecting their kids, their work colleagues, the girl at the supermarket.

The abuse I received for even daring to talk about it was appalling. people telling me that your can't transmit the virus by genital contact, that most sex workers don't kiss for this reason. Ignoring the fact that in close proximity just by breathing and touching you could be transmitting it anyway. I was even accused of "vomiting my opinions about infidelity" all over everyone.

The point I was trying to make is that guys stuck at home all day with the partner and kids crawling all over and limited options for nookie for weeks and weeks, if they are the type of bloke who is inclined to stray, they will be absolutely gagging for some outlet and may not stop to think of the consequences until it is too late. Lockdown or no lockdown. There are always people who think the rules don't apply to them. People telling me "it happens, so live with it". Not exactly helpful. We need to be thinking about this.

A previous poster mentioned there doesn't seem to be any sort of financial support for sex workers but if anyone does know of anything, I would be happy to donate if it would give them some alternative source of income at least for a while.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/03/2020 11:49

Given that we know that the virus can be transmitted via air just by standing in close proximity to someone who has it then what kind of idiot would think that shagging someone who has it would be risk free as long as you don't kiss them?

GayeDalton · 24/03/2020 12:36

@MysticMeghan
I went through a lot of very similar thought processes to yourself over a matter of days...it stuns me to realise it was less than two weeks ago that I was in a waiting room rushing to tell the receptionist they were closing the schools (Ireland), whil the UK was still working up a "herd immunity".

Let's look at the human side, this could have been an huge dilemma for sex workers, it's easy to decide to distance appropriately, it's not so easy to turn down money when you have no way to provide for yourself and your family if the phone is ringing with offers.

It didn't work out that way.

Two weeks ago, if you'd asked me to guess in private who's clients would dry up first, sex workers or hairdressers (exactly the same risk of transmission) I think I would have guessed "hairdressers", but reality has not turned out that way, the business dried up for sex workers while hairdressers were still working, in some cases, booked out (which shocked me a bit).

The only thing left to discuss is how the estimated 40,000 sex workers in UK can be given the necessary assistance to make it through to the other side now they are left without income.

There are loads of small funds (nowhere near enough) but nobody will post them here for fear that some (certainly not all) of the posters here will see that as a green light to SPAM the relevant platforms with demands that the appeals be shut down, as has happened on a smaller scale in the past.

I do share that fear.

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 24/03/2020 12:37

This thread is about helping human beings survive COVID19 without income, no more, no less

Threads evolve

Plus I’m getting confused with the numbers...

Next point should be 16