Can we ever roll trans ideology back?

[NoToMisogyny]

Apologies for the negativity, especially in these increasingly miserable times! But having been kicked off twitter for the crime of replying ‘ok groomer’ to someone spitting ‘TERF’ at a woman who had crawled before the cult (after giving up her career) - I’m feeling very despondent about it all. I fought this tooth and nail for 2.5yrs, and sometimes it seems it’s all been for nowt.

When I see pronouns in the bios of previously sane people, previously feminist women, previously respected scientists - I can’t help but think this is never going to go into reverse. Who is ever going to remove those pronouns? Is my DH ever going to be told be DOESN’T have to add his pronouns at the bottom of every email?

Are the sixth form colleges my DD is applying to ever going to remove questions about ‘gender identity’ from their application forms?

There are so many horrors in all of this, but for me the numbing ubiquity and normalisation of stating pronouns is almost the most dangerous of all.

Leading on from this is the acceptance even in medicine and law that only is there such a thing as ‘gender identity’ - but that It should trump biological sex in almost every conceivable circumstance.

Obviously we can’t give up. But DAMN!

Opposition parties have stated (loudly), they will absolutely go along with it and make it a priority.

They are not in power.
The Conservatives & SNP have power.

They are not in power.
The Conservatives & SNP have power.

The party in power aren’t pushing for it.
Opposition parties are pushing for it.
(Although i should exclude the SNP As I don’t know where they stand on this).

What’s your point? It seems like you are agreeing with me but arguing against me at the same time lol.

Thanks for the replies! I think midgebabe is right - it almost doesn’t matter that self ID hasn’t been enshrined in law. Everyone is acting as if it already has been. Obviously thank god it has been kicked into the long grass, but on the ground it makes little difference.

I think as long as Stonewall and Mermaids wield such power we are doomed. The acceptance of violent misogyny that had been unleashed (and given a free pass) is - well, I can’t see it disappearing.

The other thing that needs to happen is more and more celebrities and politicians defying the threats and speaking out for women.

Oh, and court cases.

(Although i should exclude the SNP As I don’t know where they stand on this).

SNP government is committed to sex self-id.
The second consultation which is a result of women in Scotland pushing hard for scrutiny closes today.
(I dont know what time)

Worth trying to complete:
forwomen.scot/

it almost doesn't matter that self id hasn't been enshrined in law

I thought that when I saw the thread about the Glasgow M&S changing rooms. It is not law that males can use female changing rooms and yet M&S somehow feel compelled to make female changing rooms mixed sex to submit to a group who are not their core customers and in doing so alienate their bread and butter customers.

it almost doesn't matter that self id hasn't been enshrined in law

This is quite deliberate.

SNP government is committed to sex self-id.
The second consultation which is a result of women in Scotland pushing hard for scrutiny closes today.
(I dont know what time)

Ok but I did already say I was not familiar with their policies which I took to think other people would understand is that I’m not up-to-date in other countries policies. I was, in my post, referring to the Conservatives. I’m not aware of the SNP’s policies or what they stand for.

www.indy100.com/article/trans-rights-scotland-government-gender-recognition-consultation-9404386

The party in power aren’t pushing for it.

Pushing what?

The Conservatives were all set to bring in sex self-id & remove single sex exemptions
James Kirkup:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1004635839480164352.html

Penny Mordant MP (Women & Equalities Minister)
27/3/2019 Maya Forstater for the Independent,
"Has Penny Mordaunt got away with the worst Mumsnet performance ever?
Questions that Mordaunt didn’t answer started with the basics: what is a woman, can humans change sex, and in what circumstances is it necessary to distinguish between males and females?"
www.independent.co.uk/voices/penny-mourdant-mumsnet-gender-recognition-act-a8835621.html

September 2019 Matt Hancock MP (Minister for Health)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3705528-New-NHS-guidance-on-same-sex-accommodation

January 2020 CPS Hate Crime Guidance for schools
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3804613-New-Year-New-Judicial-Review-CPS-Hate-Crime-Guidance-for-schools

January 2020
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3806539-Safe-Schools-Alliance-v-Oxfordshire-Council

March 2020 Judicial Review of NHS Tavistock GIDS agreed
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3804872-Keira-Bell

Lord Lucas is asking questions about application of Equality Act to the government:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3837773-lord-lucas-seeking-further-input

Vic Valentine who wrote the article for Independent (linked above 'My life as a trans person is full of challenges. But there's one thing you can do to make it easier' ) is employed by the lobby group Scottish Trans Alliance & works alongside James Morton

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3829786-James-Morton-scottish-trans-alliance-quote

It seems it is still possible to submit comment to the Scottish sex self-id consultation.
This will of course impact everyone in UK
Anyone can take part:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3833775-women-girls-in-scotland-gra-consultation-guidance?pg=5

Oh, yes; it will roll back alright. Every cult gets exposed and dismantled; people will look back and wonder how they could have been so gullible. I'm certain of it. When the class actions of detransitioners begin and their stories emerge, the tide will have turned.

When it becomes a scandal and the search for scapegoats begin. When it costs the authoritarians their money and their power.
That is when this social contagion epidemic will end.

NearlyGranny
Exactly!

The rush to decimate all women’s single-sex spaces has been astonishing to see. Marks and bloody Spencer’s? Topshop and Primark? How could it be any clearer that TRAs have specifically targeted all places women and teenage girls held dear?

I totally agree re the court cases - let’s hope they bring about a complete sea change in attitudes. But as for the cult aspect - the problem is that every other cult has been recognised as such by the sane majority. This one has been venerated.

I don’t think the same majority do venerate it. They don’t know about it.

I actually think it's the widening that will ultimately dilute it until it's meaningless. Once you have gender on a form, then expand that to include non binary, then expand it to include agender, then gender fluid... it starts to look like a pointless thing to ask about. They go back to " are you male/female?" People can just about handle "they" pronouns but the "zee" variety just make the whole thing ridiculous.

All the people identifying as things will feel the need to subdivide further and further to truly express how different they are until there are no distinct groupings.

I think that's more likely than a complete turn back.

Maybe we just need for all this ridiculous young people to grow the fuck up and experience the real world, where they will be very rudely awakened to the fact nobody gives a shit about their pronouns or whatever special gender they mystically feel like that hour.

@BuzzShitbagBobbly
Maybe we just need for all this ridiculous young people to grow the fuck up and experience the real world

Oh, you mean like every single teenager, who has ever existed in the world, ever? 😂

There is a sinister new development, which is co-ordinated attacks on women who speak out for their rights.
I think its possible that MRA groups will at some point be investigated as radicalisation networks, but only when its expedient to do so.
(I'm a cynic. Possibly they will be useful to divert attention away from pedophiles)

www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-activists-in-multiple-countries-call-for-launch-organized-violent-uprisings-against-women/

The SNP is pushing for it. There are some significant objectors within the party, but the core part is full on.

This is what will stop Independence. I'm not sure Nicola Sturgeon cares. I think that have just become too used to power. They need to impose 'International Best Practice'

This, as far I can see, involves allowing suspect men to sue poor immigrant women.

The thing is that it’s not just teenagers/ young people. They’re the sheep, and the cannon fodder. But the people really pushing it/ enabling it are far from young. Politicians, Linda Riley, Peter Tatchell, doctors, the ACLU, midwives/ doula associations, NHS chiefs, law chiefs....

Yes, I'm sure it will shrivel up and die in the sunlight. The only way it ever managed to infect so many organisations was via a combination of a stealthy take over of key posts in media outlets and organisations, alongside the relentless persecution via a combination of slander, libel, no platforming and #nodebate, of anyone who dared to give voice to a different opinion.

The work done by grassroots women's groups to bring this to public attention, and the bravery of certain journalists and news outlets has pushed it into the sunlight, and once normal people are made aware of what has been hiding behind the glitter and rainbows they are astounded, and not at all in favour of the destruction of children's future sex lives, female sports, and the safety of single sex spaces.

Our crowdfunding to get judicial reviews of the legality of crimes currently being committed by organisations following "guidelines" that they have accepted without proper safeguarding is already having an effect.

Virtue signalling companies will withdraw their support and funding once the truth becomes widely known, once they realise that their association with certain charities is having a negative effect on their brand.

Then they will all try to pretend that they were completely taken in, pretend that they didn't completely ignore the hundreds of women who wrote and explained in excruciating detail just why they couldn't use mixed sex spaces. They won't want their public image sullied by being tied to a massive wrongdoing on the scale of the lobotomy or thalidomide scandals. They'll pull back and get to work on erasing all evidence that they were ever proud flag bearers for the war on women and children. Just like they did with PIE once that foulness was unveiled to the public and immediately fell out of fashion.
Unfortunately for a lot of career politicians and companies like Ocado and M&S we have saved evidence of all their treachery and we will never forget how they betrayed us.

Another positive phenomena is the way fashion trends change amongst young people. Every daft fashion becomes dated and embarrassing, this fad is already dwindling and those who have been taken in by it are increasingly seen as annoying by their peers, rather than edgy and worthy of emulation.

I’m a working class socialist but struggle with the knowledge that Labour have never treated women as equals in the UK. And tbh many of them don't listen to working class people either.

Same here, NotAGirl. It doesn’t make sense, there’s nothing in socialism that opposes women’s rights, yet somehow the Left supports antifeminist causes.