The tide is stalled - is this why?

[NotAssigned]

Women and a few male allies have made amazing progress in the last few years.

However, while all the signs of the tide turning are there, it is not retreating down the beach.

I'm trying to work out why, because this ideology (TWAW) does not make any sense and yet it pervades political parties, institutions, corporates, the NHS and more.

Here are some possible ideas why. What do others think?

• People have trans-identifying friends who are decent people and just living their life and it would be disloyal to push back against TWAW ideology.

• Language has been hijacked (assigned at birth, pronouns in news reports, etc)

• Intersex conditions have been hijacked (many people think trans=intersex)

• The 'Born in the wrong body' narrative has gained a currency and acceptance due to media reporting of the idea.

• it's section 28 etc all over again.

I know there is nothing new here
I just think if we can distill why people are prepared to go along with this we might be more able to push back.
And I've had a glass of wine.

The sticker campaigns are a form of guerilla action......effective for grabbing attention and starting a dialogue. They pique interest and generate awareness. But meaningless on their own other than for those that are able to decode the signs and messages.

For example, up until the 'Women Don't have Penises' sticker campaign - on the Anthony Gormley statues on Crosby Beach - I had zero real awareness of what was going on........and that woke me up....because my local paper was full of it.....with the Liverpool Resisters being called a hate group and so on.....So I googled 'Liverpool Resisters'

Representative of Liverpool Resisters & Mayor Joe Anderson's response:
September 2018

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3364329-Motion-against-Liverpool-ReSisters-by-Liverpool-City-Council

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3336435-Liverpool-ReSisters

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3676744-Liverpool-ReSisters-one-year-on

Do we need a 'top 100' list of facts of women's oppression, worldwide and history-wide, leading to the present day?

It is Women's history month.
As discussed on R4 Woman's Hour this morning:

"March is a big month for women. We have International Women’s Day and Women’s History Month, but that gets less attention. Why? Jenni talks to two historians, Professor Selina Todd and Professor Krista Cowman, about it's importance and significance."
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000g3f9

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3845912-Selina-Todd-on-Woman-s-Hour

charley50

I don't know if I think it is that they don't know about women's situation in the past. It's more that they don't understand it.

They imagine that any kind of sexism, bigotry, racism, whatever, comes just from people being "hateful" and jerks. Bad People. Sexism has nothing to do with biological differences between men and women (God forbid, there are no differences between men and women that could cause that!) Racism has nothing to do with the creation of categories to justify certain economic arrangements (then they might have to consider their own economic links, where their ipads come from.) Homophobia is nothing to do with how a society thought about sex more generally.

All of these things are simply caused by intolerant and unaccepting people, and it is possible to get rid of all of these isms and phobias if we simply get rid of people like that. If sexists are no longer common, than sexism shouldn't be either.

Dame Jenni Murray - 'A History of Britain in 21 Women.'
JM toured discussing the first book, there is a second which is a history of the world in women's lives.

"Dame Jenni's talk is a polite yet passionate fingers up to history’s attempts to silence women, on the very week Millicent Fawcett’s statue was unveiled on parliament square.

Jenni began writing her a book ‘A History of Britain in 21 Women’ in 2015 after learning that the women’s movement might be erased from the A level history curriculum.

Her lecture is a whirlwind tour of some of the books more colourful characters – from Boadicea to the Iron Lady, Elizabeth I to Ethel Smith, featuring personal anecdotes (interviewing Thatcher after her deposition) and offering fascinating insight into some of suffrage’s lesser known stories (suffragette cricket lessons for more accomplished brick throwing)."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxyLZobtj7M

Yes exactly. In my industry every bit of of marketing material needs to be backed by SMART objectives, otherwise there's no focus.

Does your industry produce mugs/pens/t-shirts etc? All they need is the company logo/name on. People responses more positively to things they are familiar with, hence little items which put a company name into people's consciousness.

Even for that reason the stickers are good, remind people of familiar ideas and raise interest if people haven't seen it before.

Jenni began writing her a book ‘A History of Britain in 21 Women’ in 2015 after learning that the women’s movement might be erased from the A level history curriculum.
Thanks Roman, that's what I mean; women's history isn't explicitly taught.
The institutional capture has to be fought, and at the other end we can't presume that young people know (as much as we do) about our oppression.

Absolutely Charley

Also, Independent February 2020:

'Not one woman's name included in GCSE science national curriculum, study finds
Only half of adults can name a female scientist, writes Maya Oppenheim

www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/uk-news/gcse-science-no-women-gender-stem-curriculum-exam-a9319796.html

Many young people now don't seem to accept that women actually are oppressed

You're right. I very often hear younger people saying that to suggest women are in need of protection and can't look after themselves is offensive. With the advent of equal civil rights people seem to think the job is done. 'Equality' can suggest 'sameness' but also can fail to account for difference. Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome.

Representative of Liverpool Resisters & Mayor Joe Anderson's response:September 2018

Yes, I was in the chamber at the time.......in support of the speaker. It was a shocking experience - but nevertheless interesting on account of what it revcealed around social conformity and ideological capture.

The institutional capture has to be fought, and at the other end we can't presume that young people know (as much as we do) about our oppression

i suspect that many young women now put experienced oppressions down to them as individuals, rather than them as being representative of the group that is female/women. In some respects i think that can be more damaging to mental, because there is less felt or identified solidarity with others in the same category.

mental health

For example, up until the 'Women Don't have Penises' sticker campaign - on the Anthony Gormley statues on Crosby Beach - I had zero real awareness of what was going on........and that woke me up....because my local paper was full of it.....with the Liverpool Resisters being called a hate group and so on.....So I googled 'Liverpool Resisters'

And given what happened in the chamber of Liverpool City council, and the invited speaker's appeals to basic safeguarding principles......it was very apparent that the battle is far more complex and entrenched than simple clear principles might suggest. She could not have been clearer, more articulate or more expressive......none of it mattered when the chamber rose to cheer and applaud the mayor's vitriolic attack.

And given what happened in the chamber of Liverpool City council, and the invited speaker's appeals to basic safeguarding principles......it was very apparent that the battle is far more complex and entrenched than simple clear principles might suggest. She could not have been clearer, more articulate or more expressive......none of it mattered when the chamber rose to cheer and applaud the mayor's vitriolic attack.

The reasons why those in the chamber at the time didnt recognise the clear Safeguarding & women's rights principles which were articulated may be complex. That doesnt mean there is anything wrong or lacking in how they were articulated.

Many people have watched the two speeches since. I used to show it to people without much background & its very effective. They were shocked by Mayor Anderson's bullying & completely bemused by the full support he had.

That Mayor Anderson & members of Liverpool council dont understand/respect Safeguarding is the important thing to recognise. There is plenty of evidence elsewhere as to this.

Totally agree R0wantrees and @Justhadathought .. women's achievements barely acknowledged, and when they are it's all about one individual. And conversely our oppression ignored, not discussed as being actually a deliberate system of control.

And women not being seen as the 'weaker sex' anymore, is working against us, in sport, in the philosophy that anyone can't be whatever they want to be. Sorry, I'm repeating what others have said.

Sorry didn't mean to @ you!!!

women's achievements barely acknowledged, and when they are it's all about one individual. And conversely our oppression ignored, not discussed as being actually a deliberate system of control.

So important to amplify women's voices & achievements.

Women do not have to centre men/males.

I was just looking at my screenshots and I’ve been debating this on SM since Feb 2018 but I’d been following it for a lot longer.
I took a SM break and am now back to commenting less often (as it does impact me, I fall down rabbit holes so easily) and honestly even back in 2018 I would be the sole person on a page (I mean fairly mainstream breastfeeding pages for instance) saying “no this isn’t right”. I’d get lots of likes but hardly anyone else chipped in. Now I go to comment and find that multiple people have already said what I wanted to say and “no debate” is rarely seen (maybe on pink news but I don’t bother with them)

Billy's at it again telling people showing evidence of sporting comparisons that it's all in bad faith and there must be a way. He's a true believer and nothing is going to shake his faith in men. Awful

Not RTFT yet but I would say until Parliament acts, a lot of these issues won’t change and organisational capture won’t be reversed. The Gender Recognition Act needs to be repealed because it is operating in a different legal and social context now than when it was brought in, which is causing unforeseen legal and social issues. a new Act of Parliament needs to be brought in to require regulation medical and surgical interventions on young people under 25 and on vulnerable adults. Also we need to campaign for much better CAMHS to support children and young people who are distressed.
Doctors at GIDs say they are under great political and economic pressure to act a certain, politicised ‘affirming’ way, that is never a safe way to run healthcare in the best interests of patients.

That should read: ‘regulation of medical and surgical interventions’

Yes, ChattyLion. Also, people need to learn to distinguish between input designed to help and input designed to hinder. Someone telling you that the GRA cannot possibly be repealed/it's the law so too bad is not trying to help, they are trying to hinder.

Also, people need to learn to distinguish between input designed to help and input designed to hinder. Someone telling you that the GRA cannot possibly be repealed/it's the law so too bad is not trying to help, they are trying to hinder.

I agree. It's an opportunity to recruit into forced teaming so that your eyes are removed entirely from the prize.

Women's rights are not a PR campaign.

I think there is the fact that this ideology has spread from America across the whole of the Western world, and it has been accepted and is being rolled out over many countries, not just the UK.
It's hard for the UK not to harmonise to some extent with the social policies adopted by all of its friends and neighbours, without being perceived as old fashioned or regressive.

There is an interesting R4 program on at the moment on 'freedom of thought'

Forum Internum
"What is freedom of thought and why might it need protecting in the digital age? It’s one of our foundational human rights, but the right to freedom of thought has never really been invoked in the courts as it was never believed vulnerable to attack – until now.

This three part explores the need to safeguard what lawyers are calling the forum internum (our own private, mental space) from the incursions of social media technology, new kinds of surveillance and manipulation through data-mining, advances in AI and neuroscience, the arrival of neurolaw and fMRI imaging in the courts, and the very real possibility of thought-crime."

It's hard for the UK not to harmonise to some extent with the social policies adopted by all of its friends and neighbours, without being perceived as old fashioned or regressive

Interestingly some of those countries furthest down the path are those who have been historically colonised nations; or adjacent to a larger, more dominant neighbour; usually trying to assert a 'modern', progressive sort of identity, .........that they are keen to prove: Ireland, Scotland ( should they push through Self ID), Canada, Australia......