Douglas Murray letting rip about Starbucks is an absolute joy

[LiterallyProblematic]

He starts at 44 minutes in. It’s bloody brilliantly!

Islamophobic

Not pogo is

I thought The Strange Death of Europe was an incredibly brave book. I can’t say more because I’d risk getting banned from MN I think.

I also think the Strange Death of Europe was a very brave book.

The book was an education for me because I thought our government was alone is being so bonkers.

*in

It makes me uncomfortable because when it comes to trans issues my views are seemingly at odds with most people around me. I have friends at work beginning to announce their pronouns in emails and arranging training sessions with Gendered Intelligence. Coming across things like this makes me wonder, god, is it me?! I know what you mean. But it isn't you! You just haven't submerged yourself in the current social more of subliminating your entire essence in order to please others - unless you are a man who wants to wear woman face!

Be uncomfortable. Just as the enemies of your enemies are you friend, such men as Murray have a voice that will be heard.

You don't agree with everything everyone you know and love thinks do you?

His comments about multinationals using Pride as an ostentatious way to get cheap marketing done so that the public forget about the other things they've done - such as not paying their taxes, causing a financial crash, bad behavious by employees etc is bang on the money.

Most major companies now have a diversity officer on a huge salary. Their job is to attend Stonewall-esque conferences, as part of a PR drive for their companies.

Although this doesn't explain why the police also do this

Love Douglas Murray, he always tells the truth as he sees it. His anger on this is just beautiful to hear and I so wish more people shared it.
I disagree about his view of women's sex you power over men. It wouldn't work with him for a start, would it.

'Sexy' power!

Great. That's my free time tonight spoken for!

The only reason that a lot of the outspoken stuff comes from the far right / alt right is because there is currency for them in being the controversial voice and / or hate figure. They don’t give any kind of a shit about women’s rights.

If you think people on the right don't care about women's rights, you are very much mistaken. About half of women are right wing. A common beef they have with left wing feminists is that the latter dismiss their voices while claiming to be the only real representatives of women's interests.

They don't always have the same views on women's rights. But it's easier for the left if they simply pretend they don't care about it at all. Lazy politics.

We are in a period of political realigning and I think that’s because of the failures of governments to deal with the real economic fallout from the 2008 financial crisis in any way that helped ordinary people and not financiers.

I can’t give data for the UK, but in the US, ALL of the economic recovery after 2008 accrued to the top 5%. The remaining 95% never recovered.

Here’s an interesting article that talks about how Wokesterism works in service of the professional-managerial class to keep solidarity from forming amongst those not of that class, and describes how western economies are becoming “plutonomies”: economies in which all growth accrues to the top 20% or so and everyone else works precariously in service jobs to service those people.

The article mentions both Doyle and Murray, left and right, and their touring and speaking together, as an example of that shifting in political polarity.

I’m an old school radfem who’s been involved in left political organising for decades, but I’m constantly surprised now at how many times I agree with articles in “The American Conservative” and disagree vehemently with what passes for leftist ideas which aren’t really left but are steeped in identity politics, neoliberalism, and in the US “responsibility to protect” foreign policy which is a screen for imperialist military adventurism.

www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/03/lets-crush-the-woke-plutonomy-an-interview-review-of-the-populists-guide-to-2020-a-new-right-and-new-left-are-rising-by-krystal-ball-and-saagar-enjeti.html

I went to hear Andrew Doyle (and Titania) interviewed at a Triggernometry event on Sunday. He spoke about the fact that he has many friends and allies on the ‘social conservative’ end of the political spectrum but that some of his left-leaning contemporaries in the arts/comedy world won’t even publicly dare ‘like’ or retweet his or Titania’s tweets for fear that it would be career suicide. It was all a bit depressing really (although very funny).

I thought The Strange Death of Europe was an incredibly brave book.

I agree.

His views on women/parenthood do carry very strong hints of Jordan Peterson, which is not really that surprising.

TheRealMcKenna I was there too!

vaginafetishist it was great, wasn’t it?

The fact that men can more easily achieve the joys of fatherhood without the same lifetime financial penalty isn't even mentioned even though it's the whole bloody point. We just need to be more grateful for the superior chance nature gave us to be poorer and more economically vulnerable through the joys of childrearing apparently.

But if you had to choose: which would you rather be, a poor woman with a close and loving relationship with her children or a rich man who rarely sees his kids?

There is a kind of ultra-capitalistic way of looking at the world which says that what counts most of all is money, and as the man has more money he is the better off person in this scenario. I think Murray's point is that you can look at the trade off in other ways that are not just to do with how much cash each person has.

Yes, it was great, really interesting- I was expecting more terfs though.

Although this doesn't explain why the police also do this

Because in a resource (money) constrained age, the ways in which the Police can gain public support is similarly constrained. Dealing effectively with more crimes just isn't going to happen (unless it's things like non-crime hate incidents). It is simply an inexpensive way of creating a positive glow around their image/brand.

Why that particular comparison not? (I know it's Murray's not yours.) I would rather be a richer, economically independent woman with a good relationship with my kids than a poorer, dependent woman with a good relationship with my kids. That's a comparison I prefer. Particularly given the divorce rate. It's not either/or.

I don't want anyone letting men off the hook of having to accommodate women's desire for economic parity on grounds of a 'natural order of things' argument. Having money and control of it is a massive deal for women otherwise we are simply at the mercy of men's goodwill, which can work out very badly sometimes, loving children or no.

The joys of motherhood narrative also ignores the fact that many women find it anything but! It can be stressful, boring, exhausting and thankless with horrific hours and major physical sequelae. (No guarantee of a good relationship with them in adulthood either, no matter what you sacrificed for them.) I know so many women who have ended up on antidepressants after having children! I don't think they were simply failing to be grateful enough.

My ex has both a good relationship with our kids AND a better income than me, because I paid the child penalty (not 'penalty').

Sorry for derail OP.

Douglas Murray is a very conservative writer as are the majority of writers at The Spectator, The Telegraph and The Mail. Nevertheless, they are the only organs willing to take on the trans madness infecting the liberal media and left journalists.

The fact that men can more easily achieve the joys of fatherhood without the same lifetime financial penalty isn't even mentioned even though it's the whole bloody point. We just need to be more grateful for the superior chance nature gave us to be poorer and more economically vulnerable through the joys of childrearing apparently.

I don't think he's missing the point so much as disagreeing about the nature of the assessment. I think he's taking a position that the fact that our reproductive role tends to lead to different economic roles is inevitable, given that reproduction is part of the economy in the truest sense of the word.

The discussion of feminism in 'Madness' is frustrating but no more frustrating than arsehole women talking about sex positive crap, slut walks and chanting TWAW.

Sex work positive

The thing is, I don't expect Murray to be on our side on most feminist issue, or to discuss the impact TRA demands are having on everyone else with the kind of people who're already willing to listen to radical feminists. I expect him to discuss the issues publicly, which then makes it easier for others to do so, and I hope that he will reach people who weren't already listening to us.

This isn't like when you invite someone to join a political party that's specifically focused on women's issues and they then undermine that by working to restrict what women can say and ask for from within (Harrison/Hayton do this). Murray isn't working with us, he's doing his own thing and sometimes that is beneficial to us. We need people all across the political spectrum speaking out about this because that's how the issue will get onto the agenda of the widest possible range of people, which is what we need to stop the runaway train.

His comments about multinationals using Pride as an ostentatious way to get cheap marketing done so that the public forget about the other things they've done - such as not paying their taxes, causing a financial crash, bad behavious by employees etc is bang on the money.

Which is interesting. In Britain, the woke left is a political movement which is pro-censorship, anti-Jew, thinks women should stay in their place, and that the main purpose of the police should be to enforce the right way of thinking. Add in a relaxed attitude to big business, providing they support the right ideological causes, and a weakness for charismatic leadership. It’s all starting to look a bit like a particular political movement from the mid twentieth century...