‘Woman or person who gave birth’

[Fooffmalooff]

I have recently been given a survey to fill in regarding care during pregnancy and birth. It’s an NHS survey.

One of the questions asks how you are related to the baby, be it birth partner, family member or ‘the woman or person who gave birth.’

I don’t know why but this has really annoyed me. Women give birth. ‘People’ (read- transgender men) do not. Absolutely fine if you identify as a man etc etc but even if you live like a man, look like a man, think like a man... if you are pregnant and having a baby, you are biologically a woman, no matter how you think/feel/look on the outside.

I just feel a bit weird about the inclusion of this on a survey which is intended for women regarding the most fundamentally female thing you can do.

Thoughts?

I do wonder why not mother?

Is this about surrogacy too?

It certainly does create multiple layers of distance within the newborn-postpartum mother dyad, and that is not usually positive for either of them.

Nothing happens in a vacuum, many or most choices effect people who aren't or appear not to be the ones the choice is about - deliberately or as collateral damage. How isn't always clear immediately.

Doesn’t this question make you either a woman or a person? I’m thinking maybe women should start to find it triggering to be referred as a non person.

Saw some pregnancy advice from a local charity addressed to 'birth giver' the other day.

Anybody who uses that phrase in relation to me, will be picking their metaphorical front teeth out of their wokey dokey tonsils.

Elsie, it's the denial of immutable biological facts that pisses me off and an expectation that I am to play along with it. Woman are adult human females and it is only women that get pregnant.
If a woman wishes to identify as a man fine, but don't expect people to refer to them as otherwise if, when pregnant, they are referred to as a pregnant woman because that's what they are.

If anyone truly believed they were a man, there’s no way they’d choose to do this

This. ^^

I’d as them to explain who this ‘person’ could be? Because they couldn’t possibly mean a man. And you are with male or female.

Exactly! Only women give birth - there’s no random other sex that also gives birth too

It’s also tempting to write ‘unsure, please explain the differences between men and women?’

I agree, FloralBunting

I genuinely read that as 'the woman or person...who gave birth'.

Women are people, thank you very much. How dehumanising.

Probably not the intention. But not a good look.

“Birth giver” sounds almost animalistic. Or robotic? Totally dehumanising. Ffs, just to avoid the word woman 🤷🏻‍♀️

How did they ask about the dad? Sperm giver?

Oh no - worse still ‘person who produced the sperm’

I would write "it's always a woman who gives birth, but thank you." Like Janet from The Good Place when she has to keep reminding people she's not a girl/hologram/robot.

@Lordfrontpaw

What about ‘ejaculator’?

My hubby would be seething!

I suspect the medical term may be wanker but I could be wrong...

it's the denial of immutable biological facts that pisses me off and an expectation that I am to play along with it. Woman are adult human females and it is only women that get pregnant. If a woman wishes to identify as a man fine, but don't expect people to refer to them as otherwise if, when pregnant, they are referred to as a pregnant woman because that's what they are.
This sums it up perfectly. Well said!

“Elsie, it's the denial of immutable biological facts that pisses me off and an expectation that I am to play along with it. Woman are adult human females and it is only women that get pregnant.
If a woman wishes to identify as a man fine, but don't expect people to refer to them as otherwise if, when pregnant, they are referred to as a pregnant woman because that's what they are.”

No one is denying that biological women are the only people who can get pregnant, everyone understands this. All that is happening is some biological women do not feel comfortable being referred to as women so are being called “people” on forms instead, it’s really not that big of a deal as it affects no one but them.

If you don’t believe that trans men or women should be referred to as anything other than their birth sex no matter how much it distresses them then that’s your choice, but if other people are happy to call them people instead then why not let them? Why does it matter if we call a pregnant trans man a person rather than a woman? If doing that makes them feel much happier and comfortable then why not? What makes your opinion on this matter, which has literally nothing to do with or any effect on you, more important than the people who it actually involves e.g. trans men and their healthcare providers?

Elsie, my explanation about my objections is clear enough. I am not going to deny biology just because it might upset someone. If a transman gets pregnant then they are a pregnant women, if being referred to as such upsets them, then tough fucking titty.

It’s a hell of a mental pretzel - so they (‘man’) gets pregnant by another man? How does that happen?

They might not be comfortable at being referred to as a woman but MEN DO NOT GIVE BIRTH! Biology doesn’t give a crap about feelings.

The thing is, in an effort to be nice to transmen, you are now forcing gender on people who are incredibly uncomfortable with gender

Why can't you just be nice and stop trying to make the word woman mean something it doesn't?
Why can't you be nice and stop offending people?

What sort of thought process let’s you feel happier about the whole birth process if you’re referred to as a man?
I mean, of all the things that could be “triggering” for someone delivering a baby who insists they’re aren’t actually female - the wording on a form will be the biggest thing?
It’s a very insidious thing. Like drips from a tap that are barely significant in themselves but manage to flood the floor eventually when combined together.

The word is 'mother'. Even the law isn't arguing with that one.

Be nice. Why do we have to be uncomfortable or cross our fingers to accommodate someone who won’t accept reality (but may change their mind later on and sue people)

It is not nice or kind to refer to a human female as a birth giver to appease someone who deliberately gets pregnant whilst insisting they’re a man.
It’s incredibly insulting to women. Why does the tiny minority need to be pandered to, and women everywhere told to stop being big meanies by calling themselves women?