OK the whole drag story time thing

[Qcng]

I've seen posts on this board before basically completely denouncing drag story time, but I've never really gone along with the perspective that it's such an oh so terrible thing. So I don't join in on those threads. As GC as anyone I actually think, dressing up is fine for girls and boys, these people aren't trying to send a message to children that it's big hair and fake lashes that actually make you a woman, (unlike say, someone like Caitlyn Jenner would send that message). They're sending a message that boys can do dress up too, that being gay is ok, and being a man in makeup is ok.

Anyway, I came across an article (posted by a GC feminist who was rather sarcastic and not at all sympathetic) where the drag queen received online abuse after attending a school for drag story time. So that's what got me thinking really, I don't think anyone should be on the receiving end of a torrent of abuse over something like drag.

I know drag itself is for adults, sexually charged, drugs involved etc and I am completely against "Desmond" and "Lactasia" (sp?) I would never in a million years want children to be encouraged to do drag or be in that scene at all under the age of 18.
Drag story time isn't encouraging that though surely? Like having a clown do tricks in a school, they aren't there saying "you should all start learning to juggle and paint your face now".

In the school setting the drag queens are literally just reading a story, usually with a positive LGB message. They aren't making crude jokes and won't use their same stage name (EG "Flow Job" is just "Flow" and "Popping Cherry" is just "Cherry" etc etc)

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that DQ story time isn't actually that bad, and in fact does send children a positive message particularly to the gender non confirming/LGB/those with LGB family members?

There was thread on that yesterday in AIBU Just.

Indeed there was (is). I found it reasonably reassuring that there were a fair number of people who view things like

Either way, that sort of mentality inflicted on your kids will damage them far more than having a drag queen read them a story.

... with a degree of scepticism. Once you start to see how people will deflect from huge breaches in safeguarding, it becomes much easier to spot.

Complaining about the source, accusing you of prudery, false analogies, all of it.

We were even called ‘flat earthers’ at one point 😂

Not even just out on the bus or in the shops

No! I've lived in London too.....and have never seen a drag queen on the bus.

Just okay, what about a man in a dress?

I don’t think children need to see full on show drag to accept that people wear what they like. Which seems to be the excuse for these shows.

We were even called ‘flat earthers’ at one point

Indeed. 🤣

I was brought up in the 70s in a small town and we knew about transvestites. Is it compulsory for children to know about them now?

Just okay, what about a man in a dress

Not very often, no...unless they are on a stag do......wearing a kilt...or are trans.

I actually commented to one young man I saw wearing a stylish skirt a few weeks ago....because that is such a rarity....and told him now nice it was to see a man confident enough to wear a skirt without thinking he was a woman.

Can we just quit with the idea that this is about interesting children in books and stories. The storytime is just a vehicle for the Drag Queen. I've spent my life storytelling and promoting reading. It starts with the book and respect for the story not the identity of the storyteller. It's about connecting the child to the story.

I once saw a drag queen dressed as Patsy from Absolutely Fabulous on a fairground ride, but that was London circa 1993.

Nothing wrong with a guy showing his porn act/fetish to small children. How else will we train them to accept porn acts/fetishes as normal?

“Children would not normally come across a drag queen in any normal circumstances unless their parents took them to 'Pride'.”

Not even just out on the bus or in the shops?

I do apologize but I'm cracking up at this comment

You don't tend to see drag queens on the bus or in the shop in London, no.

Fwiw I'm a Londoner
You do indeed see transwomen or men in dresses, there are two in my (very woke East End) area, one likes suspenders, one likes heels and musical instruments. I often see the heels one in Wilkos or Sainsburys and once in the post office ranting about something.
These types aren't in drag. Drag is different. DQs tend to frequent night clubs while dressed up and then dress normally for their day-job.

Anyway, autumn having watched the YouTuve vid by Sonia Poulton it's shocking viewing and some powerful juxtapositions that reveal a lot. Thanks for sharing.

I’m a Londoner as well....

I know there’s a difference but my point is, drag pretends it’s all “oh the kids must see men in dresses” but surely they already do?

Tbh the amount of makeup folk are wearing daily, it’s getting hard to tell the difference.

and told him now nice it was to see a man confident enough to wear a skirt without thinking he was a woman

Ah yes, the good old days of Jean Paul Gaultier designing a range of skirts for men.
How I miss that sort of thing.

Tbh the amount of makeup folk are wearing daily, it’s getting hard to tell the difference.

Your typing style is really giving me the giggles for some reason.

I basically agree with you.

Some DQST footage I’ve seen is disturbing... encouraging children to touch or even lie on their bodies (!).

Hopefully most are non-groomy but still - I’d never take my child.

Why would I, what is the the benefit for my child? There is none. The only benefit is for the performer. And my child doesn’t exist to benefit them.

Drag Queen Story Time aren't 'going along with a trend' tho. They invented it. They are it
Datun

DQ Story Hour was invented by an American lesbian woman (actual female woman) who wanted libraries to be more "inclusive", "diverse", "tolerant", (and all other woke buzzwords). DQs were basically invited, demanded, in fact.

DQs obviously won't say "no", bc they'll look for opportunities to dress up and show off whenever they arise, and will look at other known DQs doing the same so won't want to be the only one turning it down.

I can't buy into the narrative that DQs are trying to get in on reading stories to children because they're paedos.

I DO get it that if you break boundaries in exposing children to sexual content, that's completely wrong. And invites opportunists.

I can't say I see the whole thing as harmless as I did before starting this thread (so thanks again).

It's almost like another layer of an idk... I'm going to make up a really rubbish simile, so if there were some sort of rainbow cake made up in layers, at the bottom you have Mermaids telling children they can choose if they're girls or boys based on sexist stereotypes, next you have gender neutral bathrooms because they're more inclusive, then there's puberty blockers to stop children developing, then there's drag queens exposing them (I'd say inadvertently) to adult content, but the icing on the cake is gratification for paedophiles?
Kind of thing...

I can't buy into the narrative that DQs are trying to get in on reading stories to children because they're paedos.

Well it's a good job no one has said this then.

It gets a little irritating when you point out how mechanisms that allow paedophiles access to children, means that everyone involved is a paedophile.

And it's not relevant that a lesbian woman set up drag queen storytime. Maybe she is as misguided as everyone else.

The point is drag queen story time is the trademarked group, who send drag queens into kids' libraries and schools. It's a specific business model, not a trend that a few drag queens are bandwagoning onto.

And certainly, at least one of them is a convicted paedophile. I imagine the prevalence of paedophilia is the same percentage as it is elsewhere. The point is, as soon as paedophiles realise the mechanism by which they can access children, the percentage of paedophilia involved will increase.

Unless you think being religious and believing in God is something that ignites paedophilia. And not, that priests were a sacred caste whom people could not possibly believe would do wrong. And therefore it attracted paedophiles. Because their cover was water tight. .

But even they had to do it covertly. The mechanism introduced by drag queen storytime is that you can do it overtly. And be clapped. And invited. And celebrated.

Crawling towards children in a sexual pose and then touching and kissing them, having them lie on you. Yay.

and told him now nice it was to see a man confident enough to wear a skirt without thinking he was a woman
This reminded me of David Beckham making the news for wearing a sarong.

What is the the benefit for my child? There is none. The only benefit is for the performer. And my child doesn’t exist to benefit them
That's my feeling.
If I decided to get my GCSE class all to snuggle up on the carpet whilst I read A Christmas Carol to them and encouraged some of them to lie on top of me/across me, I'm reasonably certain I'd be in the head's office being asked what the hell I was doing (and rightly so).

How is it relevant that a lesbian apparently thought of it? Lesbians are not more immune to stupid ideas than the rest of us.

As far as I know all the DQ performers are male, and I’m not aware of them being “demanded” (!) to perform against their will, poor dears,

Just perform for adults. That’s it.

There's nothing new about the tension between flamboyance and partying and genuine mind-changing representations of LGBT people.

The first time I went to Pride nearly 30 years ago I remember thinking that while it was good fun, and all the floats and campness and dressing up were very entertaining, if we had actually wanted to change minds fast everyone would have marched in their work uniforms (those who could), office clothes etc. Much more dull, but much more efficient normalisation than the more eyecatching stuff.

Similarly here, relatively ordinary people who happen to be gay or lesbian or disabled would be far more appropriate and helpful.

Ps inclusiveness is a great idea, by the way, and I applaud the woman who wanted to foster it.

But DQST ain’t it, especially in places that police checks aren’t mandatory.

Why does sexuality need to be 'included' over say, a disability or religion - and as the first port of call? I'd want the children to be educated, excited, enthralled by the reader. They are there to read a story not gove them a lecture.

Get a police officer in, or a firefighter, chef, nurse, lion tamer... a nun a guru or a yogi...

If a child can't ask about their reason to be there (from 'are you a boy or a girl?' - which is a hate crime these days to 'how are you a woman if you have a willy?' - also a hate crime) then they shouldn't be there.

The first time I went to Pride nearly 30 years ago I remember thinking that while it was good fun, and all the floats and campness and dressing up were very entertaining, if we had actually wanted to change minds fast everyone would have marched in their work uniforms (those who could), office clothes etc. Much more dull, but much more efficient normalisation than the more eyecatching stuff.

I remember when pride parades in my city were people marching in their normal clothes. It's was clearly a political march.

Pride (TM) is clearly a different kettle of fish, it's basically about overt public sexuality. DQST comes from the same thinking I believe, that our sexuality, and sex itself, has to be front and centre in public situations. My daughter actually came home from school at age 12 believing that being an honest open person meant you needed to publicly declare your sexuality.

I live in greater London and get the tube into town for work, there really aren't drag queens all over the place!

There's a man in our home town who dresses in a long cloak and has a long wizard stick and another man who likes to zoom along backwards in his wheelchair, but no fresh queens that I've noticed.

On the tube there are some very brilliantly decorated young people from time to time but no drag queens generally.

The comment that people wear so much makeup it's hard to tell is a bit odd tbh

I don't think it's hard to tell!

We have two regular characters around us (been here for years, must be in their 60s by now). One wears a sari and a rather ratty wig (they aren't Asian) and the other wear things like a lame mini skirt, rabbit fur bomber lacked and high heel boots. Also ratty wig. Nowadays we get a few lads in miniskirts being very loud trying to get attention and trying to catch peoples eyes.

Oh I forgot the 20-something male in the long white lacey slip dress and hiking boots. Hair (head and armpits) - au naturel - straggly and unbrished (as is his beard). Also tries to make contact with passers by, who just ignore him as he looks like he is spoiling for a fight.