OK the whole drag story time thing

[Qcng]

I've seen posts on this board before basically completely denouncing drag story time, but I've never really gone along with the perspective that it's such an oh so terrible thing. So I don't join in on those threads. As GC as anyone I actually think, dressing up is fine for girls and boys, these people aren't trying to send a message to children that it's big hair and fake lashes that actually make you a woman, (unlike say, someone like Caitlyn Jenner would send that message). They're sending a message that boys can do dress up too, that being gay is ok, and being a man in makeup is ok.

Anyway, I came across an article (posted by a GC feminist who was rather sarcastic and not at all sympathetic) where the drag queen received online abuse after attending a school for drag story time. So that's what got me thinking really, I don't think anyone should be on the receiving end of a torrent of abuse over something like drag.

I know drag itself is for adults, sexually charged, drugs involved etc and I am completely against "Desmond" and "Lactasia" (sp?) I would never in a million years want children to be encouraged to do drag or be in that scene at all under the age of 18.
Drag story time isn't encouraging that though surely? Like having a clown do tricks in a school, they aren't there saying "you should all start learning to juggle and paint your face now".

In the school setting the drag queens are literally just reading a story, usually with a positive LGB message. They aren't making crude jokes and won't use their same stage name (EG "Flow Job" is just "Flow" and "Popping Cherry" is just "Cherry" etc etc)

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that DQ story time isn't actually that bad, and in fact does send children a positive message particularly to the gender non confirming/LGB/those with LGB family members?

What about people with less usual appearance which isn't self induced?

Lots of children don't see people with disabilities around much, and hearing about their history and how things can be difficult and what is good, would be positive.

Certainly when it comes to disability (physical) there's a serious lack of understanding esp if it makes you look 'different' in some way.

Seems all the old diversity ideas have been channeled into one direction, and of that direction, the one that's picked is best known for being sexualised, and often misogynistic.

Interesting isn't it.

The thing is, this isn't how the DQs usually dress, so I don't see how it could be said to be about diversity. Why don't they come in and be representative of the gay community in their normal clothes? They only dress like that when they are performing for adults, not when they are in Tesco or seeing the doctor. It's not about diversity or acceptance at all. It's just not relevant to children.

I still think the bikini clad woman holding a fork full of sponge is the winner.

Lots of children don't see people with disabilities around much, and hearing about their history and how things can be difficult and what is good, would be positive.

It's funny how un-diverse diversity is these days.

There would probably be a lot of societal value in ‘normalising’ people with noticeable disabilities to children. It would improve the attitudes of the whole community.

Whereas normalising drag has little community use, not even to the DQ, who presumably like the specialness drag. Normalising means making something an ordinary, everyday thing (as in ‘normalise breastfeeding’)

No DQ wants to be ordinary, surely?

It’s not Elaine Davidson, it’s a British man named John Lynch, who used the nick name ‘Prince Albert of Camden’

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure that it was the same person, just commenting that they look alike. Quite hard to see what's going on under all that metal

I don't really understand why anyone, male or female, with extreme body mods is a suitable person to educate children about diversity.

I undertand that some kids, goths and Emos especially get bullied and worse for being different.

I understand that it's important for kids to grow up respecting other people's tribes and fashion choices.

I understand that kids need to be taught not to bully or pick on people because they are different for any reason.

I think that DQST and extreme piercings are something suitable for adults and adult choices and not suitable for young children.

Similarly I would not want a fat activist tellings kids that being morbidly obese is personal choice and that anyone saying otherwise is a bigot.

It would be helpful if there was some sane, nuanced, middle ground where children learn to respect difference without being exposed to adult themes and dangerous misinformation.

As always I am open to hearing other views,

Look - a goth or kink can rock up in full gear.

Kids: ‘who are you?’
Adult: ‘I’m a goth. This means I like to look this was and I love this music’
Kids: ‘ohh’

Kids: ‘who are you?
Adult: ‘I’m a woman - my name is Carmen Diego’
Kids:

Kink - sorry that was punk.

Yeah, let’s not be accidentally advocating for kink in schools, Lord 😂

I knew a body piercer who had a customer who had so many piercings in his dick he had to piss into a jar to stop it going everywhere.

I never knew whether to believe it or not!

My friend was not far from Camden so could be the guy above or maybe there are more...

Are these the sorts of challenges that diverse people face that children need to learn about?

There’s a woman in the park who has Tourette’s. She is a bit sweary though.

People with tourettes do get a terrible time esp from children.

One for the older children maybe, secondary. Would be valuable though I think. It is really hard for people with these types of conditions IRL and a bit of swearing never did any harm.

I'm not sure the parents would be on board but that would be an actual useful thing to do.

Comments upthread about how funny that diversity isn't very diverse and tbh it's all about men, make gaze, male sexuality, male view of women. Yeah it's shit isn't it.

Kids: ‘who are you?
Adult: ‘I’m a woman - my name is Carmen Diego’
Kids:

Do drag queens say they're a woman though? They don't usually identify as one (I think, anyway) so why would they say "I'm a woman, my name is Carmen?"
I'd have thought they'd have just said something like "hello, I'm Carmen." Like people usually talk, you don't usually go around adding "I'm a woman" in your hellos, well I don't anyway.

Some do. I was imagining - this is my name and this is why I’m here.

To the cool posters among us who are up for a drag party at your local library story time ... have you looked at the Twitter handle (for some of the 'acts?' (is that the term? Not on Twatter myself but grateful others for posting links)? Such as Flow Job? These are things our tech minded kids can easily look up - "Hey mum, let me show you this amazing person who read to us today!"

Well you turn up on a dress with fake boobs and a play on a woman’s name - usually with added obscenity. Yes you are announcing you are a woman. That’s kind of why they are called drag Queens not drag glitter creatures or drag dolphins or just drag men.

you don't usually go around adding "I'm a woman" in your hellos, well I don't anyway.

Genderists are now announcing their pronouns in meetings and on email sign-offs so I don’t see why announcing your gender identity would be seen as so unlikely to happen.

In other words, won't answer can't answer so it's straight to the insults and pretending nobody said anything?

Yeah, it is really annoying when people do that. We get a lot of it here, unfortunately. Sometimes people don't even read what you actually say and just go straight for the hyperbole. So strange.

As for DQST, I agree with others that it seems odd that out of all the positive LGB role models that could read stories to kids, it's drag queens they pick, and these drag queens at that.

Oh god I think if someone introduced themselves to me with pronouns I'd find it so difficult not to snort laughing in their face. I mean, I literally couldn't give a shit.

I'm off back to the world of work after a career break in the near future ... I need to work on my poker face, clearly

There's an organisation I work with and there's a chap there - its not his fault - but he really does look like he could use the pronoun 'she'.

Because they wear unisex corporate gear and he has long hair and is quite quietly spoken and effeminate - at events you will hear people who don't know him umming and errrserrring when they are trying to describe him (as at conferences no-one knows anyone's name) 'errrr, um, the one from ABC company - they were at the door when we came in - with the long hair - the techy person...'

I have met his wife, he isnt gay, he isnt 'she' - but he is aware that people 'just can't tell these days' and sometimes is amused by it (sometimes it really hacks him off).