OK the whole drag story time thing

[Qcng]

I've seen posts on this board before basically completely denouncing drag story time, but I've never really gone along with the perspective that it's such an oh so terrible thing. So I don't join in on those threads. As GC as anyone I actually think, dressing up is fine for girls and boys, these people aren't trying to send a message to children that it's big hair and fake lashes that actually make you a woman, (unlike say, someone like Caitlyn Jenner would send that message). They're sending a message that boys can do dress up too, that being gay is ok, and being a man in makeup is ok.

Anyway, I came across an article (posted by a GC feminist who was rather sarcastic and not at all sympathetic) where the drag queen received online abuse after attending a school for drag story time. So that's what got me thinking really, I don't think anyone should be on the receiving end of a torrent of abuse over something like drag.

I know drag itself is for adults, sexually charged, drugs involved etc and I am completely against "Desmond" and "Lactasia" (sp?) I would never in a million years want children to be encouraged to do drag or be in that scene at all under the age of 18.
Drag story time isn't encouraging that though surely? Like having a clown do tricks in a school, they aren't there saying "you should all start learning to juggle and paint your face now".

In the school setting the drag queens are literally just reading a story, usually with a positive LGB message. They aren't making crude jokes and won't use their same stage name (EG "Flow Job" is just "Flow" and "Popping Cherry" is just "Cherry" etc etc)

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that DQ story time isn't actually that bad, and in fact does send children a positive message particularly to the gender non confirming/LGB/those with LGB family members?

Well, in my day, we used to see them in soho at daytime but I think that children can accept drag, as much as they need to, without special events.

It keeps coming back to the people who're all for this actually being rather sheltered, doesn't it? As if they're extra keen as parents to prove that they're not their slightly nerdy younger selves any more.

Just reading a story?
I have a problem with anyone touching or fondling children.

Prodigal, I don’t know, does it?
That’s an interesting idea

I do remember working in an office, a man came in for a meeting wearing a dress, and one colleague was absolutely stunned. The rest of us were stunned that she was stunned. She did have a limited upbringing but we were thinking, doesn’t she have TV?

So maybe things seem new to others that I just think of as totally normal.

Anyone remember TFI Friday and the lovely Wiiiiil? They did a segment with him walking through Piccadilly in short dress, fishnets, heels etc. I was walking by when it was filmed. No one batted an eyelid except a couple of us who clearly fancied Wiiiil and were just pleased to see him.

But DQST is going on in London. Surely kids raised in London will see queens all the time?

Ginger If that was a female teacher playing with a child, rather than a gay man, would you have posted that picture with such a disapproving tone as if to ignite pedophilia fears in people’s minds? Ignoring the fact the man is clearly not touching or fondling the child.

This chap just read a story.
I don’t think it’s OK for a big scary monster to be reading to preschoolers or infants my son was scared of the gruffalo, based on book illustration alone!

Yet this is the kind of drag costume I find interesting as an adult (I was a big Leigh Bowery fan back in the Kinky Gerlinky days). Some things just don’t translate well when you take them to a different audience.

that was a female teacher playing with a child, rather than a gay man,

Have you got primary age kids? Because these days teachers aren’t even allowed to help kids apply sun cream, they most definitely are not allowed to lay on the floor and invite kids to climb on them.

Ignoring the fact the man is clearly not touching or fondling the child.

And adult male is allowing a child to lie across his body.

Yes absolutely. I have no problem with a story book reading. I don't like children being touched, encouraged to lie down on adults (as in the picture). And I don't like them being photographed and posted on social media without consent.
There are enough drag queens around for schools to ensure the ones they book are as careful of safeguarding as parents would like.
Ignoring consent is problematic.

From my perspective as an adult that's the best costume I've seen at DQST. From a toddler's perspective that's a big scary monster that's going to eat them. Why is the distinction between for adults and for children so hard for some people to grasp?

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that DQ story time isn't actually that bad, and in fact does send children a positive message particularly to the gender non confirming/LGB/those with LGB family members

Can't say I agree about a 'positive message'. To me that is predicated on adult thinking. The images of some of the drag queen story times I've seen show what are often quite ugly depictions of women - certainly in a child's eyes. The stuff of nightmares....A bit like a clown....where someone is presenting as something they are not...and what they are presenting is over-blown and somewhat grotesque. confusing and upsetting.

Also that the representations are supposed to be of women presents a very distorted image of femininity and womanhood, which is focused on make-up, overtly sexualised clothing, high heels etc. Is this what we really want to suggest to children that it is appropriate or normal for women and girls to wear?

But DQST is going on in London. Surely kids raised in London will see queens all the time?

If not then I'm rather sad (for London, in general). But again I keep coming back to the fact that people who're all for this seem to believe that men in dresses and/or makeup is some shocking thing that will blow the minds of the children, but in a good way, and I'm just going, where do these children live? Do the parents keep them in a box? Have the parents themselves spent the last few decades on a desert island, or is it just that they spent the 70s through the late 90s studiously ignoring pop culture?

Yes I do and in reception and nursery they did apply sunscreen to them, so I’m not sure if that’s a regional thing or an in your head thing.

My toddler will also run and jump on anyone, are you the sort of people who thinks every man is a pedophile? Or just gay men? Or just drag queens?

Either way, that sort of mentality inflicted on your kids will damage them far more than having a drag queen read them a story.

Natyo you seem to have zero concept of child safeguarding. Please do not allow your toddler to jump on adult men or make your toddler think that jumping on adult men they don't know is acceptable.

And before any of the people above get confused, random drag queen reading the paper on the tube and minding his own business - fine, just try not to trip on the hem of your dress and give up your seat if someone elderly or pregnant needs it. Drag queen teaching toddlers how to twerk while they're told that this represents Gay People Generically As A Group, It's Diversity OK- nope!

“ My toddler will also run and jump on anyone”

Ffs don’t let them do that.

Because they look all glittery and colourful and have an extravagant personality. Children like that sort of thing

I'm not sure if you have children yourself.....? but children can become quite disturbed by certain characters in films and even in cartoons; especially when the characters are quite grotesque. they come to represent something mythic and symbolic - and attach themselves to psychic contents/fears/anxieties etc.

Quite frankly, it is not just drag queens, but a lot of what parents/adults now consider appropriate, or desirable, to show to children baffles and concerns me. Seriously ugly characters. I think it de-sensitises children and hardens those sensitivities. It's not that we must only present sweetness and light....but age appropriate material is important.

ODFOD. It’s neither regional nor in my head, a quick google will show you that:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2019/07/15/teachers-banned-putting-sun-cream-pupils-child-abuse-accusation-fears-10327639/amp/

Prodigal “ Drag queen teaching toddlers how to twerk while they're told that this represents Gay People Generically As A Group, It's Diversity OK- nope!”

It’s the same source of thinking that says I should have certain views on account of being from an ethnic minority. Sad.

Apart from the concerns for the child, not everyone wants to be jumped on.

Indeed. I can imagine quite a few people not welcoming someone else's toddler trying to jump on them

My god! That image that Datun posted -showing a drag queen crawling across the floor towards a young girl; being watched on by an audience of adult men is seriously disturbing.

There was thread on that yesterday in AIBU Just.
The number of people who thought it was worse to share a tweet from a right wing commentator than it was to expose a child to sexualised behaviour was, well 😳

I don't see what the drag element adds to the occasion personally.

They could have storytime from a range of people in the community where the children can meet and talk to a diverse cross section of society who all look and act differently. They could have story time with characters from books or films reading them out (similar to the princess parties). They could have musicians in to do music and story time workshops. They could have drama students from the local college or university to do some theatrical story telling.
There's so much potential out there for story time, why do they need to have drag queens in schools, and why do these visitors become exempt from safeguarding to a point where they can openly engage in conduct that would see school staff disciplined?

But DQST is going on in London. Surely kids raised in London will see queens all the time

DQST is going on in all of our major cities Children would not normally come across a drag queen in any normal circumstances unless their parents took them to 'Pride'.

“ Children would not normally come across a drag queen in any normal circumstances unless their parents took them to 'Pride'.”

Not even just out on the bus or in the shops?