ForWomen.Scot banned from Glasgow Women's Library

[Dances]

International best practice, my arse
mobile.twitter.com/E_Ben_Eta/status/1233179248573243393

Just came to post the link to the Spectator article but see its arleady here.

So shaming that we have to rely on men in right wing papers to speak up for us.

And refering back to my earlier post about an english lesbian group sending their papers to GWL thinking they would be safe, have just seen a tweet from someone saying they have spent the day trying to find out what is going on as she was part of the group that decided to donate the papers from London Lesbian Line to GWL. (I think LLL was one of the first of maybe the first specifically Lesbian helpline until funders decided women didn't need their own source of support.)

" ... Until I was eight years old, it was illegal for Scottish schools to teach anything about “the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship.” As is the case for so many questions, I found the answers in the Lesbian Archive housed by Glasgow Women’s Library. There, I learned the true significance of lesbian activism and community building. There, I learned about organisations like Lesbian Line – the first lesbian hotline in Britain. ... "

www.afterellen.com/columns/547921-lesbian-line-remembering-life-saving-lesbian-hotline-pre-digital-world

I hadn't heard of Engender Scotland, so I looked them up.
From their web page: "Engender is Scotland’s feminist policy and advocacy organisation. Engender has a vision for a Scotland in which women and men have equal opportunities in life, equal access to resources and power, and are equally safe and secure from harm."

However, their FAQs state "Trans women are very welcome to become members of Engender and attend our women-only events. We support self-ID, and therefore welcome trans women, non-trans women, and those who identify as women."

So, no risk to women's safety from trans rapists in women's prisons or changing rooms? - good!
No risk to equal opportunities if trans athletes take women's sports trophies? - great!
No loss of access to power if trans politicians stand on all-women shortlists? - fantastic!

Engender Scotland were given two years funding (by the UK Equality and Human Rights Commission) for a project "to enable women disadvantaged by a public service provision to come together in ‘communities of interest’ around specific issues of concern".

I'm sure we can all think of numerous areas in which women are disadvantaged, especially in Scotland where there is more poverty than down south. So I was surprised to find that one of only three groups Engender Scotland chose to help were transwomen having to wait for gender reassignment.

"The research shows a need for greater funding in Gender Clinics and GR treatments," they found.
Among transwomen's complaints was "No help with simple everyday things ie. make-up, walking like a woman, deportment".
www.engender.org.uk/content/publications/Women-Thinking-Trans-Issues-Report-2011.pdf

And what more urgent requests could women possibly have of public services?

In my view Engender is one of the most dangerous organisations for women's rights in Scotland. They endorse, promote and lobby hard for transgender ideology and legislation, they are consulted with on every women's issue and they supported trans rights organisations in their demands to abolish the basis for women's sex-based rights

When challenged about all of this stated that they never claimed to speak for all women. (Hence it was okay to do what they're doing, as some women certainly do agree with all of that). And then they speak on behalf of women again.

They even had a policy in place that prevented groups campaigning to uphold women's sex-based rights from joining as members.

It's bizarre, Charlie.
Engender Scotland also responded to the GRA consultation with "broad support for the Scottish Government proposals [for self-ID]" and "our view that the proposals won't undermine the safety and dignity of women accessing women-only services".

Just unbelievable. And it was a joint response with "national women's equality organisations Close the Gap, Engender, Equate Scotland, Rape Crisis Scotland, Scottish Women's Aid and Zero Tolerance".
www.engender.org.uk/content/publications/?cat=2

All these women's groups toeing the trans line? Why? How many of their donors knew?

Can GWL tell us what a woman is?

"The research shows a need for greater funding in Gender Clinics and GR treatments," they found.
Among transwomen's complaints was "No help with simple everyday things ie. make-up, walking like a woman, deportment".

The everyday struggles of women, eh?

I was considering sending my lesbian history to them but will not do so know, I do not want male people sniggering over my personal and political letters and so on. This is the way our history will be hidden again in years to come

There aren't enough expletives to convey what I think of that Engender project! How bloody dare they steel from women?!

If there is such an urgent need for beauty products and deportment classes, one night think the extremely will funded trans orgs could do it. Yet again, they seem to prefer to use money to pay people to force the 'women's' groups to centre their needs...

Stumbled, I was wondering about LL conditions as well. Are GWL allowing self identified male "lesbians" access do we know?

Generally GWL is open to everyone. Sometimes there are 'women only' events. These are open to trans and non binary and - I think- gender fluid people. I.e. anyone.

Yes, I saw the women only events include the world and and its mother! Just thought some of the lesbian archive had conditions about being for the benefit of women only, but I'm probably getting befuddled!

We support self-ID, and therefore welcome trans women, non-trans women, and those who identify as women." (Engender FAQs)
Who the fucking fuck are 'non-trans women'?

This from GWL's core values:

'Valuing All Women

We value the skills, abilities, knowledge and experiences of every woman regardless of her background and circumstances. We welcome all women equally so that each individual shares a sense of ownership and belonging in this organisation.'

Funny, I can't find the caveat about welcoming all women other than those we don't agree with. But I know it's there. And I know I'm not welcome.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror - sorry I dont know the answer, because if they do have sections saying women only, lesbian only, but they have a policy of accepting twaw what does that mean.

I know some women who have given all their personal papers to the feminist library on the condition that they were only made availalbe to women doing research. And a whole oral history project. This is because in its originas (WRRC) that was part of its reason to exist.

But any attempt to get the FL to clarify what they now do in practice is just not answered.

Thanks stumbled, that's so desperately sad. It looks as though women's conditions can be rewritten with the definitions and that's not on...

@Thinkingabout1t

How many of Engender's donors know? They are 90% funded by the Scottish Government, and I reckon the SG officials know.

Same thing does for the Equality Network/Scottish Trans Alliance (with whom Engender et al are super-friendly).

Have a look at this transcript of a podcast Engender hosted in June 2018 (after they cancelled a public meeting on GRA reform - which they only pulled together under pressure from GCFs and it was scheduled for THREE MONTHS after the last Scottish Government consultation closed):

scottishequalitiesorganisations.blogspot.com/2019/05/transcript-of-on-engender-podcast-on.html

Its extremely common that where voluntary sector / 3rd sector groups receive local or central government funding, then rather than grants officers taking time to interact with each group who will (or to start with did) have a unique relationship to their users, they encourage or actively set up what is called a 2nd tier organisation.

It just needs a few people from voluntary / community sector groups to agree to be part of it for them to come into being. The next stage is that the funders say to frontline groups, unless you are part of whatever 2nd tier group you views will not reach us your funders. But to all intents and purposed the 2nd tier group doesn't consult with or attempt to represent the frontline services, they instead do the work of the grant officers, and tell front line groups what policy now is.

So Engender is one of these, as is Imkaan and WRC.

Many councils for voluntary service which used to be a strong voice for local groups, are now little more than an out post of the local council.

In fact there has been such a growth of this fake groups, that there are now 3rd tier groups to represent the 2nd tier groups. eg NCVO and NAVCA.

So councils cut the wages cost because they get other people to do the work they should be doing. And as in every part of life, there is always someone willing to take on that work.

Jeez The engender. Just getting money for what

We are only women in relation to anything male

Idiots and getting paid by us for being idiots.

Non trans women. What a bloody cheek

Why are they funded to lobby against women ?

Whaaaat? Five women from four women's organisations, all falling over themselves to agree with each other that self-ID is no problem, no problem at all?

I've just read that Engender transcript, Howonearthdidwegethere, and I'm stunned.

Apparently all our misgivings about self-ID are caused by misunderstanding and misinformation.

"absolutely no evidence that there had been a problem with trans inclusion in any of our services"

"The Scottish Prison Service introduced a policy based on self-declaration all the way back in 2014". I didn't know that. Did anyone else?

Rape Crisis "has had LGBT and trans inclusion particularly training for all our volunteers and all our staff for many many years ... we’ve progressed on our inclusion work while maintaining the ethos of a women-only space". (Eh?)

Self-ID apparently wouldn't make the census incorrect, or hide the real gap between men's and women's pay etc, because there weren't enough transwomen to affect the figures.

Also, no problem with violent men self-IDing as women. Somehow, although we're not allowed to mention a TW's previous name "justice agencies do have the right to see a person's gender history and to include that …. So that somebody who is assigned male at birth committed a violent act and then transitioned would still show up in the statistics as a male perpetrator of violence".
So that’s all right then! No problem when he starts terrorising women in women’s prison!

Thanks for posting that link, depressing though it is. Looks as if the trans movement is achieving its goal of 'policy capture' in Scotland as in England. My admiration for heroines like Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine increases yet another notch.

It is policy capture and funded by Scottish government

Edinburgh rape crisis centre making all their loos gende4 neutral in pursuit of silver charter thingie from I think stonewall

For those enquiring about the toilet facilities at ERCC we've 1 individual disabled access bathroom on our ground floor, & 2 individual bathrooms on our 2nd floor. The signs on each of these 3 bathrooms are all gender neutral in line with our commitment to being LGBT inclusive.

Oh it’s this. They pay £800 to get some sort of award from LGBTYS

so Scottish women’s aid just need to rename themselves to all people’s aid

Today marks the beginning of #LGBTHistoryMonth and we are pleased to announce we are starting work to achieve our #LGBTCharter from @LGBTYS!

Scottish Women's Aid is for ALL women, and we want to proactively make sure we are being as inclusive as possible.

'Month'? - what about pride month - or whatever the tail end of June-all of July and teh way into September rainbow flag season is called these days?

Look at the money being directed towards
@Lgbtys
This is the organisation that took £200,000+ from taxpayers & produced school guidance that some female volunteers tore to shreds coz it breached multiple Human Rights.
This gravy train needs stopped in its tracks!

From forewomen Scot. Above from their twitter feed