Cartoon in the Morning Star

[Cwenthryth]

Kristina Harrison (prominent gender. critical transwoman, WPUK supporter) just posted this on Twitter - apparently it was published in the Morning Star.

KH wrote “This cartoon appeared in The Morning Star earlier this week @MStarOnline It is a horrific, generalised demonisation of trans people which does not belong in a civilised society, let alone a socialist newspaper. I condemn it utterly. Trans people & progressive opponents of identity politics are owed an unequivocal apology, an explanation & reassurance about what action is being taken to ensure that the line between fierce but legitimate argument and bigotry is never crossed again. Totally unacceptable. (not posting a direct link as I don’t want to facilitate any pile on against Kristina, clearly this is a sensitive personal issue for a transwoman).

Comments are supportive of KH so far. I thought it’d be a good topic for discussion here - does this ‘demonise trans people’ or does it baldly illustrate safeguarding concerns with self-ID? Is it different from the popular/accepted(?) ‘Fox identifying into the henhouse’ analogy? Hopefully we can keep things civil and respectful with no personal criticisms of Kristina.

I repeat - using relatively isolated incidents to generalise about all transgendered people is wrong . Men don’t need to dress up or go in disguise or even more extreme go through Sex transition to Assault or rape women. Yes there should be a review of where trans gendered people are put in prisons for everyone’s safety.

Repeating arguments that have already been addressed and dismissed is not very effective.

Also Why the random Capitalization?

Yes there should be a review of where trans gendered people are put in prisons for everyone’s safety.

Why is everything else isolated incidents, but prison isn't?

The whole "I repeat!" thing is so funny. Here ye, here ye, a very important person has made a declaration so the rest of you peasants better hop to it and obey!

Or hear, even. Apparently poor SPAG is contagious.

Men. We're talking about men as a class, however they identify. Men don't need to attack, rape or oppress women, and yet they do, in significantly larger numbers than 'isolated incidents'. You can repeat it all you want - the feminist case here is that men as a class are a significant risk factor to women. That's really all there is to it, and I give no fucks at all which male contingent find that fact distasteful or uncomfortable. It is far more unpleasant to be the woman in a scenario of fear or attack than it is to be the male a woman fears.

Cartoons are pretty much designed to push buttons, make strong points, and be offensive to someone. Free speech can be offensive. I find much of what TRAs say and do to be extremely offensive.

To misquote Germain Greer "I'm offended all the time and no one gives a damn".

Personally I read the croc as representing self id, not as all transwomen.

The overwhelming violence against women is by heterosexual men.

well many TW are previously known as "heterosexual men", and are still attracted to women during & after transition.

So what's the distinction when it comes to violence against women, or at least the potential for it? I don't see any, apart from if you self if you will find an army of people who will willingly usher you into the ladies loo/changing room/hospital ward/sports team.

Apologies for the random capitals -poor typing skills I’m afraid. Been reading through this thread and many seem very angry and aggressive. I don’t feel my rights as woman are threatened by giving trans gendered women rights .

Men don’t need to dress up or go in disguise

They don't need to, but for the ones who want easy access to women whilst loudly proclaiming how vulnerable the man is, it's very effective.

Trans women are in the vast majorly of cases hetro sexual men who retain both their attraction to women and their intact genitalia.

Also It’s not just about safety it’s about my privacy & dignify not to change in front of Male bodied ppl I don’t know

I’m also don’t see why women only spaces designated precisely because women remain unequal such as female only shirt lists or prizes shld got to ppl socialised as maje becatse they’ve now decided to put in woman costume

They can have their own spaces, they’re not having mine

Also at “angry & aggressive” it’s not us posting photos of baseball bats or “die terf scum” or smashing up shops at being misgendered or besieging meetings screaming and banging on windows

Or nailing dead rats to women’s refuges, urinating on academic’s office doors, physically assaulting women going to a meeting or whilst they’re leaving a university after giving a speech; issuing bomb threats; setting off smoke bombs at newspaper offices....

I didn’t even need to pause to think of these incidents - and that’s before you consider all the online abuse, deplatforming, doxxing, vexatious litigation against individuals.....I think us women are entitled to be more than a little angry, tbh. Don’t mistake female assertiveness for aggression, either, that’s your socialisation & gender stereotyping expectations showing.

And what’s worth noting, is that - I believe - almost all of these crimes, abuses, harrassments against women are carried out either by, or in the name of, self-identified transwomen. The battle cry is always TWAW. They only started saying ‘TWAW and TMAM’ more recently after the sexism was repeatedly pointed out. By feminists and our supporters.

I repeat - noone is demonising all transgender people. We are against self-ID in law as it threatens sex-based protections afforded to women. We are for preserving women’s existing sex-based rights; we are for freedom of speech and freedom of belief; we are for smashing gender stereotypes, freedom of expression, everybody presenting and identifying however they wish individually.

Chriscam happy for you that you don't see a problem, I used to be like you. Trouble is once you realise the harm to women's rights you can't unsee it.

I was pointing out the difference in treatment between a TW 'ally' being offended and getting apologies. As a woman I wish I had that ability to get apologies for far more seriously offensive cartoons, but as I am a woman I don't have that magic power

I don’t feel my rights as woman are threatened by giving trans gendered women rights

Neither do I

Good for you, Willis. Be sure to let those who do feel threatened that they're being silly little women and give their heads a good wobble.

Your work here is done, it's over ladies, temporary blip in the system, back to work now.

Thing is, it doesn't really matter if a few women would be delighted to have random cocks turn up in their changing rooms, prison cells, etc. If they want to volunteer themselves they can do so, but they don't get to volunteer me.

Women have the right to legally exclude the opposite sex from anywhere they may be vulnerable or undressed.
They also have the right to tell the truth without dear of legal punishment.

Those are actual rights.

Is anyone threatening to remove those rights currently?
Yes. Yes they are.

This toxic TRA movement is nothing more than a lobby group determined to threaten women's rights to say no.

Plenty of women are happy to sacrifice their right to say no to nen, or accept punishment for it. The ones who 'aren't threatened' by the men who can force them into a shared changing room, an unwanted medical treatment from the opposite sex, or a dock in a criminal court.
Good for you, women who don't value the right to say no.

The rest of us are happy to wave you off to your third spaces with any and every man who fancies making you genuflect for him.

But we understand the value of preserving our right to say no to men. All men. We'll preserve it for all women, even you, even if you never use it.

Indeed. In fact I eagerly await news of the letters those women have sent to Karen White saying "you can share a cell with me any time". Put your money where your mouth is and all, eh?

Neither do I Well, there we are, al saved!

About 2 years ago, like many others here, I would have agreed with you! I grew up in the Gender Bending 80s and have a healthy 'live and let live' attitude to the life choices of others. Having trans freinds helps - transman who I supported through full surgery and is now married to my ex boss (natal female) and a tranny mate who has been cross dressing since those heady 80s, he has gone out in dresses since he was about 14 (apologies for the virtue signalling, but I want to make sure posters understand my lack of 'fear').

BUT that isn't what TRAs are fighting for. They don't want to be 'allowed' to be trans. They want Trans to be legally insignificant, null and void, unless it aids them. They want TO BE WOMEN, more they want to be women with additional protection BECAUSE THAY ARE TRANS. Think that through - transwomen actually are women, say otherwise and you will be charged with a hate crime, but need more rights because they are also trans... as there is no legal hate crime for misogyny!

So... what you don't feel is thretened is the right of every woman working in the beauty industry to say no, they don't have the training, skills or inclination to wax male genitalia!

The right of female prisoners not to have a man sharing a cell with them - many transwomen are in prison for sex based crimes against women... real stats everywhere here on FWR, taken directly from the ONS, FOI requests etc.

The right of a woman beaten or raped by a transwoman to call her attacker him in any court case. Forced to lie by the presiding judge, and then penalised when they couldn't keep the lie straight!

The right of a woman who is in a crisis centre not to have to live with or be counselled by a man. That is a woman newly traumatised by a man, raw, scared and vulnerable... cannot say no to a man who might want to be their rape counsellor... or fellow resident.

The right of an older woman, incontinent, vulnerable, to say no to male care assistant. To be shouted at and sanctioned for 'misgendering' their assigned CPA.

The right of a owman to asy no to a male nurse taking smear swabs and being threatened with legal action and sanctions from the surgery for recognising the woman assigned to them was actually male.

The right of women to be women, with no further clarification, additional labels such as natal, cis, real etc. Transwomen want it to be illegal to ask them if they are real women, to see a GRA, but it seems OK for them to add clarification to women, to be sure we are not women but are cis etc. And so women become a subset of women! We are Not Trans women!

The right to defend all sex based rights from the linguistic torture, as in the above paragraph. Gender is being used to undermine the EA2010 in EVERY SINGLE GOVERNMENT ORGANISATION - check your local school, NHS etc, see what they say! Sex or gender? If gender then women have absolutely no right to any single sex provision of anything! For any reason, anywhere, anywhen... think that through!

And don't 'whatabout' me. Every point I made has already happened, mutiple times. In each instance a woman has been hurt, physically, mentall and financially... is that acceptable to you? If so how many women being hurt is acceptable to you?

Do you have an upper limit? Or had you not thought it through?

Two years ago I read a similar post to this and I shouted back at the poster! That poster took the time to reasona with me, to not shout back but to ask me questions and ask that I consider them! That poster has been banned from MN for some time now... as have others... specifically for continuing to point out that transwomen are men and that biology is irrefutable and that women have abslutely no need to budge up and relinquish anything simply because a man asks!

I would urge you to do the same. Read, think about the questions posed and give the tpic some further, open thought!

Apologies for the random capitals -poor typing skills I’m afraid. Been reading through this thread and many seem very angry and aggressive. I don’t feel my rights as woman are threatened by giving trans gendered women rights

If people are feeling angry it is because of years of abuse; of suppression; of having venues cancel at last minute; activists banging on windows and screamin;, people being reported to police for hate crimes; your own natural political party naming women's groups as 'hate groups' and so on.......

Trans people have the same rights as everyone else....what they are seeking is additional rights, and more to the point the right to colonise women's spaces and re-configure the language women are permitted to use to describe and discuss themselves and their issues.

If you were a young woman having to compete, and lose out to, male bodied people in your own female category, as another example, you may well feel otherwise. It is not just about toilets......the agenda is extensive and wide ranging and really quite profound.

I think it represents how many women feel about safe spaces - that they are vulnerable to predators if opened up to men who simply have to say they identify as a woman to access them. It is about the point rather than any individual. The crocodile and newts are just representational of women's feelings and worries. Women are not newts. Trans women are not crocodiles. Newts and crocodiles don't speak our language. Isn't this how cartoons often work?

*I repeat - using relatively isolated incidents to generalise about all transgendered people is wrong . Men don’t need to dress up or go in disguise or even more extreme go through Sex transition to Assault or rape women. Yes there should be a review of where trans gendered people are put in prisons for everyone’s safety8

There are now many hundreds of examples of violent male/trans-women offenders; paeodophiles and rapists - and that's just in Britain over the last couple of years. The only way to protect women and girls - especially in a situation of gender self ID is to reinforce single sex spaces, services and sports.

The overwhelming violence against women is by heterosexual men. Using a rare example to demonise all transgendered women is appalling

You miss the point quite spectacularly. And the examples are no longer isolated - they grow by the week as more men feel emboldened to identify as women. This is not about that lovely sweet individual you personally know...it is about the general principle.

If you are really concerned about safety and dignity for all.....why not campaign for 'third spaces and categories'; why must women being gaslighted and abused for their feelings of discomfort in their own spaces and sports?