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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

The WI and their 'transgender' policy

74 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 22/02/2020 18:38

I know this has been discussed before but I have just got around to reading the actual policy of the WI.
Which I am pretty sure Stonewall would find transphobic!

Extract:
"Can male to female transgender people join a WI and attend WI events?
Yes – anyone living as a woman is welcome to join the WI and take part in all WI activities. They should be treated in exactly the same way as all women who are part of your WI.

Can crossdressers join the WI?
No – only those living as women can join the WI and take part in all WI activities."

Has anyone here discussed this in their local branch or with The Powers That Be? Is this still national policy?

hampshirewi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Transgender-Policy.pdf

OP posts:
DickKerrLadies · 22/02/2020 18:44

No explanation of what 'living as a woman' actually means though.

It does seem to be such a tricky question.

DryHeave · 22/02/2020 18:49

I can tell you that “living as a woman” does not mean “being alive and female”. That’s for sure.

DickKerrLadies · 22/02/2020 18:57

I can tell you that “living as a woman” does not mean “being alive and female”. That’s for sure.

Ah shit. That's literally the only way I 'live as a woman'.

I guess I'm stunning and brave now.

Beamur · 22/02/2020 19:06

So, these transpeople in dresses can come in, but those men in dresses cannot...

OneEpisode · 22/02/2020 19:09

The WI is a social organisation for adults who remain fully dressed and awake for most of their activities. I think they put the inclusion of transwomen out for opinions, so including them, and including in their rules seems a reasonable (as opposed to completely irrational) decision. I’m not that bothered really about that organisations choice. However, the fact that my phone doesn’t allow me to type transwoman, without loads of protests, despite my best efforts, I find extremely bothersome..

Coyoacan · 22/02/2020 20:20

The WI is a social organisation for adults who remain fully dressed and awake for most of their activities

Just one more talking place specifically for women been closed down.

OneEpisode · 22/02/2020 20:38

How has it been closed down?

OneEpisode · 22/02/2020 20:42

I’m a woman and I don’t mind sharing social spaces with transwomen. I don’t mind sharing social spaces with men either. But I would like to defend the right of women to meet without if they choose. And a real right, real, informed consent.

Coyoacan · 22/02/2020 21:32

How has it been closed down?

I mean that it is no longer specifically for women.

ManchesterAunt · 22/02/2020 21:35

So glad you asked this! We asked our Advisor this - the answer was anyone who said they were a woman/presented as one was able to come in.

I've been debating setting up a resolution. I wasnt sure how to word it!

Voice0fReason · 22/02/2020 22:08

I wonder how they tell the difference between a man in a dress and a man (who identifies as a woman) in a dress.

Beamur · 22/02/2020 22:22

Good question.

TwistedEyeOfHorus · 22/02/2020 22:51

I think the WI run into issues about exclusion because they're an organisation of more than 25 that charges a fee, so can't legally discriminate against a transwoman with a GRC.

OneEpisode · 22/02/2020 23:03

They could only exclude all transwomen with a GRC if it was an appropriate response to an appropriate need for single sex services. The WI could choose to claim this, or could choose to include transwomen with a GRC.
Demonstrating a need would be harder for them than a rape crisis centre.

OneEpisode · 22/02/2020 23:06

It looks like the WI are applying a looser definition, which could cause difficulties. A definition around “female birth certificate” from birth or via GRC is legally defined.
Having said that the WI is unlikely to be under siege. Which is good, as it’s uaeful to women, especially older/rural ones.

NearlyGranny · 22/02/2020 23:32

I wonder how many transwomen - or transvestites for that matter - have ever tried to attend a WI meeting? It never seems to be that side of women's lives (service to the community, creativity etc) that they yearn for, somehow. Or do I do transwomen a disservice?

OneEpisode · 22/02/2020 23:58

The WI wouldn’t be keeping stats. They also aren’t talking about prioritising transwomen, or being transwoman led. When Rose of Dawn and I are ready for it, I think she would be good company in the local hall where the WI meet.

Lordfrontpaw · 23/02/2020 09:05

How could they prevent a male from lying about ‘living as a woman’ (whatever that is?) and attending as their thrill? What is they make the other attendees feel uncomfortable and uneasy (so if they refer to their periods, talk about ‘us girls’ and booking their mammogram etc). You don’t have to look far to see some pretty horrible behaviour that involves using others as ‘props’.

How can the WI protect themselves from getting sued if they asked a ‘bad faith’ attendee to stop coming?

ManchesterAunt · 23/02/2020 09:10

@Lordfrontpaw

Its the WI. We're not all sat around talking about our breasts and vaginas all day.

We're talking about a lot more boring and mundane stuff. And people routinely dont like other people, for all sorts of reasons. Theres quite a few women whether they are trans or not I wouldn't talk to about a range off issues.

Bad faith attendees are there for all sorts of reasons and they're a pig to kick out. But anyone going to a meeting to be titallated would be very disappointed Grin

Lordfrontpaw · 23/02/2020 09:18

I was thinking of a thread on here where there was character who was part of a music group/orchestra and was loitering in the loos talking loudly a bit their sanpro and periods (and there were young women there who were freaked out) as everyone played alone and just didn’t know what to say. People like this are bullies and often it’s ‘anything for a quiet life’ isn’t it?

I’m shocked - shocked I tell you - that you aren’t all sitting around knitting genitals and discussing orgasms.

Brokenness · 23/02/2020 09:20

I wonder how they tell the difference between a man in a dress and a man (who identifies as a woman) in a dress
I think it comes down to pronouns.
How could they prevent a male from lying about ‘living as a woman’ (whatever that is?) and attending as their thrill?
They can't.

bumpertobumper · 23/02/2020 10:09

I am a bit perturbed by this thread.

I have been lurking on the feminism boards for a long time, am GC etc. But I have nothing against trans people who are just getting in with their life, as opposed to TRA mob - a sentiment which I have often read on here... that we are not against trans people, not actually transphobic.

The WI policy seems fair and sensible- leaves space for nuance to be applied in a case by case basis.
What is the problem with a trans woman joining the WI? There is no safety concern, as a pp has pointed out. The general tone of this thread feels a bit ott

Lordfrontpaw · 23/02/2020 10:37

I think people are wondering what exactly their policy is and how they can prevent ‘bad faith’ attendees joining up and trying to direct the group.

Kit19 · 23/02/2020 10:46

On the list of things that worry me around trans issues my initial response was - meh it’s not a big deal

But then I thought a bit more and I think it’s about 1. the general pressure to call ppl who are not women, women. I’m being asked to lie by society & that doesn’t sit well with me and 2. That trans women are by definition socialised as Male so I’d be worried about the fact that men dominate conversations and 3. I’m not a prop to be used in someone’s vision of what female life is like

S that’s why I’m a bit 🤔

OneEpisode · 23/02/2020 10:55

I do think there should be a debate. But a Rose of Dawn joining the Wi in her 70s would be 5 decades into her transition so would have experiences of life analogous to women in the same community. Including Rose seems good for the hypothetical Rose and the wider WI membership.
That teenage “women’s officer” being preferred over better qualified female candidates, not so much.