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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The WI and their 'transgender' policy

74 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 22/02/2020 18:38

I know this has been discussed before but I have just got around to reading the actual policy of the WI.
Which I am pretty sure Stonewall would find transphobic!

Extract:
"Can male to female transgender people join a WI and attend WI events?
Yes – anyone living as a woman is welcome to join the WI and take part in all WI activities. They should be treated in exactly the same way as all women who are part of your WI.

Can crossdressers join the WI?
No – only those living as women can join the WI and take part in all WI activities."

Has anyone here discussed this in their local branch or with The Powers That Be? Is this still national policy?

hampshirewi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Transgender-Policy.pdf

OP posts:
Beamur · 29/04/2025 10:22

Many women only organisations have spent the last ten years or so mangling language and boundaries under pressure to be inclusive.
It's going to be a painful retraction for most of them. Groups like the WI can probably choose to remain inclusive BUT it will be interesting to see if any men try to join on the basis that to exclude them would be discrimination.
They may have to name change. Although it does mean new organisations can now be set up that are for women only without fear or guilt.

minsmum · 29/04/2025 11:25

Correct me if I am wrong but if they allow transwomen surely they cannot stop.any man joining as that would be discrimination against men

LonginesPrime · 29/04/2025 12:52

Now the SC ruling (along with the Forstater case, of course) has opened the door to our all being able to use plain language about this issue again, I hope that enables the conversation to change on women’s groups like the WI where it’s not about intimate facilities but about women wanting a women-only space in which to socialise.

One of the things I find particularly stressful about having to share supposedly women-only spaces with transwomen (especially middle-aged ones with very sexist views of women) is the fact they almost always insist on coercing the women into actively agreeing that “we’re all girls together” and performing this insulting, infantilising caricature of womanhood that the women are forced to agree with so as not to upset anyone or get bullied out of the group (typically, women like me who can’t keep quiet about it tend to self-exclude, as I’ve done with many women-only and lesbian groups over the last decade).

In terms of the EA 2010, the effect is that gender critical women (i.e. any woman not in thrall to gender identity ideology) are indirectly discriminated against by having TW in their women-only spaces as they’re forced to self-exclude.

For years, transactivists have argued that because we’re not getting naked at, say, a women-only book group, there should be no issue with a biological male joining. But there is an issue - that women often want to associate with each other away from men, as their experience of the world is distinctly different in many ways, and men are socialised differently, whether they realise it or not.

All women know that a mixed group has a different dynamic from a women-only group, but no man could ever know that as they can never experience a women-only group by definition.

This is why organisations like the WI and girl guides came into existence in the first place.

The argument from transwomen that other women have ‘cis privilege’ so they can’t possibly understand the plight of transwomen is just feminism repurposed - that men aren’t aware of how women are treated differently, because it’s not happening to them and women are practically invisible to them. Which is one reason we needed sex discrimination laws in the first place - because you can’t expect men to simply see what barriers women face, as they don’t experience them.

I’ve met many transwomen who believe TWAW who genuinely don’t realise that even if they did pass and were actually indistinguishable from women in their appearance and mannerisms, they still betray themselves as biological men as soon as they start talking. It bemuses me that they think that voice training will help with this, when the truth is that they out themselves by what they are saying anyway, regardless of how high-pitched they’re saying it.

In the same way that transwomen deny their own male privilege in assuming that women are happy to share toilets because the women are obviously too intimidated to challenge them, TW can’t possibly know what women really think about sharing their women-only social spaces with them, because they’re men muscling into that space with the unspoken threat of bullying and ostracism for any woman who objects.

I hope people feel more free to discuss sexism and male privilege in the context of women-only social spaces now that it’s been confirmed that women do have the right to associate away from men.

For too long, transwomen with male privilege have insisted on women explaining exactly why these spaces need to remain women-only, but the point of the EA 2010 is that we don’t need to justify why - the fact that women share a protected characteristic is sufficient reason in itself.

TheCourseOfTheRiverChanged · 29/04/2025 14:27

@Barracker "We freely choose to give up the right to have female only groups, spaces or associations" is more comforting than
"We fear consequences, if we fiercely defend our right to refuse."
That is the sound of the hammer landing firmly on the head of the nail.
I think this false comfort explains more of the actions of groups like the WI than female BE KIND socialisation.

ArabellaScott · 29/04/2025 16:01

https://www.thewi.org.uk/celebrating-110-years-of-the-wi

WI celebrates 110 years, and is looking for views on its future:

The Future of the WI

As we look back and celebrate the past 110 years, it is also important to look ahead and ensure that we future proof the organisation for future generations. In the WI, we proudly stand on the shoulders of giants, the army of women who forged our path for 110 years but what of the women who will come after us, the WI members of the future?
What do you wish for those women? Maybe it’s safety on the streets and in their own home, a planet that sustains them, or the confidence to be everything they want to be…?
Whatever your wish, we want to hear it. In these challenging times, when women still face so many obstacles to achieving their dreams, we ask: what is YOUR message of hope? You can share your messages by submitting them via the link below:
https://forms.office.com/e/wk02DZTAcb
Please note that the responses collected will feature in the June issue of WI Life.

Lordfrontpaw · 05/05/2025 09:29

Is this only for members? I was going to join then saw they allowed men to come and play, so didn’t.

JellySaurus · 05/05/2025 09:55

minsmum · 29/04/2025 11:25

Correct me if I am wrong but if they allow transwomen surely they cannot stop.any man joining as that would be discrimination against men

Quite.

The SC clarification of the EA spells out that the WI entry rules are illegal because they discriminate against men.

From the OP:

^^"Can male to female transgender people join a WI and attend WI events?
Yes – anyone living as a woman is welcome to join the WI and take part in all WI activities. They should be treated in exactly the same way as all women who are part of your WI.
Can crossdressers join the WI?
No – only those living as women can join the WI and take part in all WI activities."^^

Brefugee · 05/05/2025 10:55

i have been living as a woman for years: especially since i got fired for being pregnant.

littlebilliie · 20/11/2025 18:16

Looks like that policy has GONE

littlebilliie · 20/11/2025 18:17

Can men join the WI?

No. The Women's Institute is based on the idea of bringing women together, providing them with educational opportunities and the chance to make a difference in their communities. Therefore, the WI is set up as an educational charity with a constitution which states that membership is only open to women.

While WI membership is only open to women, men are welcome to attend courses provided by Denman, our educational centre for learning, and take part in many activities, events and campaigns both locally and nationally.

teawamutu · 20/11/2025 18:41

littlebilliie · 20/11/2025 18:17

Can men join the WI?

No. The Women's Institute is based on the idea of bringing women together, providing them with educational opportunities and the chance to make a difference in their communities. Therefore, the WI is set up as an educational charity with a constitution which states that membership is only open to women.

While WI membership is only open to women, men are welcome to attend courses provided by Denman, our educational centre for learning, and take part in many activities, events and campaigns both locally and nationally.

Devil's in the detail, though. Up until very recently they were allowing the self-identified kind (men) too...

Theeyeballsinthesky · 20/11/2025 18:43

littlebilliie · 20/11/2025 18:17

Can men join the WI?

No. The Women's Institute is based on the idea of bringing women together, providing them with educational opportunities and the chance to make a difference in their communities. Therefore, the WI is set up as an educational charity with a constitution which states that membership is only open to women.

While WI membership is only open to women, men are welcome to attend courses provided by Denman, our educational centre for learning, and take part in many activities, events and campaigns both locally and nationally.

Don't the WI just class TW as women though?

HildegardP · 20/11/2025 18:55

OneEpisode · 22/02/2020 19:09

The WI is a social organisation for adults who remain fully dressed and awake for most of their activities. I think they put the inclusion of transwomen out for opinions, so including them, and including in their rules seems a reasonable (as opposed to completely irrational) decision. I’m not that bothered really about that organisations choice. However, the fact that my phone doesn’t allow me to type transwoman, without loads of protests, despite my best efforts, I find extremely bothersome..

The difficulty with that, if it is how they arrived at the policy, is that they're a charity whose governing document states; "THE MAIN PURPOSES OF THE WOMEN'S INSTITUTE ORGANISATION ARE: (A) TO ADVANCE THE EDUCATION OF WOMEN AND GIRLS FOR THE PUBLIC BENEFIT IN ALL AREAS" (their caps). By admitting males it could readily be argued that they're in breach of their own governing document.
They are also subject to the Equality Act & though they're free to use the exceptions in the EqA to exclude men, it has to be all men, if not, any man could take them to court for refusing him membership. It would be funniest if he dragged up to do so.

Gagagardener · 20/11/2025 19:09

There was a thread quite recently recording the attempts by someone's husband to join and, subsequently, to sue the WI for illegal discrimination against him.

IIRC, he wanted to do a WI-run activity, but it was open only to members. He knew that some transwomen (men who claim to be women) are members. He was not allowed to join WI because he neither is nor claims to be a woman. I was wondering if this thread might be updating his progress.

Edited for grammar

Manteiga · 20/11/2025 20:17

OneEpisode · 22/02/2020 23:03

They could only exclude all transwomen with a GRC if it was an appropriate response to an appropriate need for single sex services. The WI could choose to claim this, or could choose to include transwomen with a GRC.
Demonstrating a need would be harder for them than a rape crisis centre.

They're an association, not a service provider, and can restrict membership to those having any particular protected characteristic or combination of protected characteristics (except skin colour) without having to justify it. Sex is a protected characteristic, and the Supreme Court has clarified that 'sex' in the Equality Act means sex; so the possession of GRCs is irrelevant. The Women's Institute could be women-only if they wanted to be.

I don't suppose there'll be any problem with their 'living as a woman' criterion as long as they apply it fairly - to both male and female applicants for membership.

ProfessorBettyBooper · 20/11/2025 20:40

The WI claim to be for 'women only' and have a charity objective based on this.

You can't claim to be woman only' and let in any men, GRC or not. This is discrimination against other men.

Worth looking at the other thread on this as it goes into it in much more depth.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 20/11/2025 20:40

Manteiga · 20/11/2025 20:17

They're an association, not a service provider, and can restrict membership to those having any particular protected characteristic or combination of protected characteristics (except skin colour) without having to justify it. Sex is a protected characteristic, and the Supreme Court has clarified that 'sex' in the Equality Act means sex; so the possession of GRCs is irrelevant. The Women's Institute could be women-only if they wanted to be.

I don't suppose there'll be any problem with their 'living as a woman' criterion as long as they apply it fairly - to both male and female applicants for membership.

for a start they'd need to define what "living as a woman" means without resorting to patronising stereotypes that would annoy their membership so that would be interesting

ProfessorBettyBooper · 20/11/2025 20:41

Theeyeballsinthesky · 20/11/2025 20:40

for a start they'd need to define what "living as a woman" means without resorting to patronising stereotypes that would annoy their membership so that would be interesting

Edited

And there's that...

Manteiga · 20/11/2025 21:15

littlebilliie · 20/11/2025 18:16

Looks like that policy has GONE

Don't think so:

https://www.thewi.org.uk/about-us/wi-key-messages/equality-diversity-inclusion-policy

Theeyeballsinthesky · 20/11/2025 21:19

Yep it's the classic sleight of hand. The headline is all 'it's for women and not men' and you have to dig deeper to discover than their definition of women includes men

littlebilliie · 20/11/2025 21:30

Thank you for a minute there I was thinking of joining again 🙄

Gagagardener · 21/11/2025 09:07

Can anyone provide a link to other thread?

Greyskybluesky · 21/11/2025 09:42

Gagagardener · 21/11/2025 09:07

Can anyone provide a link to other thread?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5333650-an-update-to-the-wi-announcement-thread-my-dh-just-got-a-reply-to-his-application-to-join-them

There is also a 2nd thread after that one

Brainworm · 21/11/2025 11:40

I would love to see a requirement for organisation and service providers whereby they have to provide information in both languages.

  1. They need to say if the organisation of provision is single sex (male or female) or mixed sex
  2. Say if it’s for people with a specified gender identity.

So, the WI, in addition to describing who they include using whatever language they want, also need to state its status in relation to natal sex.

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