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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

More police victim blaming - advice on how to not get raped

53 replies

Cwenthryth · 22/02/2020 13:38

Belfast police at it this time:

thetab.com/uk/belfast/2020/02/21/police-in-belfast-handing-out-flyers-recommending-drinking-less-to-avoid-being-raped-16265

Created and designed by the Police Service of Northern Ireland, the flyer reads: "Alcohol is the number one rape drug. How much have you taken already?"

Following this the PSNI have provided a 'S.M.A.R.T' acronym to consider in regard to rape:

Say NO to any sex you don't want.
Make yourself clearly understood.
Alcohol affects your judgement so watch what you drink.
Rape stays with you for life.
Take care of each other and don't go off with someone you've just met.

That was the problem wims, we weren’t saying no and making ourselves clearly understood! Drunken hussies going off with people they’ve just met! They were asking for their lifelong trauma.

OP posts:
grafittiartist · 22/02/2020 13:39

So depressing

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 22/02/2020 13:48

More sturdy pyjamamism.

SayNoToCarrots · 22/02/2020 14:02

Fuck, does rape stay with you for life? In that case I will choose not to be raped.

WhoAmIGoingToBeToday · 22/02/2020 14:04

Surely the only thing they're missing is about being careful what you choose to wear so you don't tempt the rapists?

NearlyGranny · 22/02/2020 14:07

Will they never learn? Surely this has to be the last outpost of victim-blaming police forces?!

StillWeRise · 22/02/2020 14:15

wasn't it lincolnshire police that had a better analysis?

TheTwilightZone · 22/02/2020 14:18

Ffs. Rather than victim blaming why not deliver education to males, and if that fails, then harsher punishments.

Northernsoullover · 22/02/2020 14:20

I dunno. I was assaulted whilst pissed. Was it my fault? No. Would it have happened if I wasn't hammered? No. There are complete and utter scumbags out there. I can't control them but I can protect myself better. I realise this won't sit well with many of you.

MangoFeverDream · 22/02/2020 14:25

Rather than victim blaming why not deliver education to males, and if that fails, then harsher punishments

Does the pls don’t rape message actually work though? Serious question

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 22/02/2020 14:25

wasn't it lincolnshire police that had a better analysis?
Their answer to the question ’what are the main causes of rape?’ Is ‘rapists - 100%’, so yes , they seem to have a better understanding.

TheTwilightZone · 22/02/2020 14:29

Does the pls don’t rape message actually work though? Serious question

Probably not. It starts from much younger than that really, educating children aroimd the issues of violent porn, respect, behaviour etc. Not that it always works, but if violence against women is normalised then that's what some boys will grow up to do.

userabcname · 22/02/2020 14:32

"Rape stays with you for life" isn't even advice! So not only is it offensive, it's stupid too. How about:
Sex should only be sought with willing, of age participants who are giving ongoing, enthusiastic consent.
Make sure any change in sexual activity has the consent of the other party.
Avoid drinking alcohol if you find it difficult to control yourself when under the influence - substance abuse does not give you a free pass to rape / assault others.
Remember to use protection and never knowingly remove this without informing the person you are having sex with first.
Treat all sexual partners with respect and care.
There. Fixed it.

wellbehavedwomen · 22/02/2020 14:33

@Northernsoullover the problem with that advice is that most teenage and twenties social lives revolve around getting drunk. There's huge social pressure to do so. And the reality is that a man who wants to rape and is willing to select a drunk victim will, therefore, always have one.

When you tell young women and girls not to drink so they don't get victimised, firstly you're pushing against a huge pressure telling them that's how to have a social life.

And secondly, what you're also saying is, "make sure he rapes some other girl."

You don't reduce incidence with this advice because there will always be someone else who is more vulnerable. All the advice can do is shuffle who is higher up in the likely victim stakes.

It also ignores that most rape is by someone you know.

Obviously, it's important to warn girls individually that they are vulnerable when drunk, but all of us have been drunk and vulnerable, and luck separates who is assaulted and who isn't. Not choices. I don't know anyone who never went out drinking at university and in early career stage. And I can't help feeling advice such as this simply reinforces the messages girls get from earliest life, that we can control what happens to us. By definition, it happens without our consent. We're not the ones with a say. So why is all the focus on telling us what to do?

Flowers for you. I'm so sorry you were the vulnerable one he chose to harm that day. It would have been someone else were it not you. I do agree that we need to remind our girls of that on an individual basis... but it really will only juggle the victims, and the police should know that.

Thymelord · 22/02/2020 14:40

Northernsoul The issue with this line of thinking is that it doesn't solve the problem. Had you personally not been drinking and thus avoided the assault, the attacker would have just assaulted someone else. You haven't prevented an assault or a rape from happening, you've just swapped one victim for another.

Thymelord · 22/02/2020 14:41

Sorry, I've basically repeated your post wellbehavedwomen, although you said it better.

wellbehavedwomen · 22/02/2020 14:41

Does the pls don’t rape message actually work though? Serious question

Interestingly, it seems that it does with some men, yes, and by ten per cent.

You won't stop the intentional and deliberate predator. But you will deter the young man who doesn't see taking advantage of someone really drunk as rape, because you can reframe it so it's very clearly seen as such.

Drunk driving used to be totally socially acceptable. A mass ad campaign made it the total opposite. Now, it's seen as beyond the pale. Most people still see rape as a scary man in an alley, preying on an innocent young girl as she walks home - not the young guy in a club, offering to get that friend home because she's really drunk and then having sex with her when she's pretty much out of it. That's the occurrence we can reduce by education, yes. Especially eg in universities with Freshers. They get really angry around consent workshops because it's still all No Means No in most people's minds. We should be teaching that you need a positive and enthusiastic 'yes' from a sober person. And we should be doing that from really young, because most boys now access porn online at a depressingly young age, and if we don't form their ideas about sex as well, everyone is in serious trouble.

wellbehavedwomen · 22/02/2020 14:42

@Thymelord no, I think you did! Concision is great. Sadly I've been up with a sick child most of the night (and am not very concise at the best of times!).

Mockersisrightasusual · 22/02/2020 14:44

You could apply all of that 'common sense' to robbery, but people will still go around with wallets and purses full of cash, then showing them in public as they attempt to buy a round of drinks, etc.

BlueHarry · 22/02/2020 15:22

When I was 19, I think I was raped and I also think that my drink had been spiked. I remember going to the bar, ordering my first drink and I remember noticing a man at the bar. I started to drink my drink. After that I have absolutely no memory until I woke up, unable to move my limbs like I was paralyzed, with that man I'd seen at the bar, on top of me. No memory of how I got there or how any of it happened. So I'm not sure on any of the details between me starting to drink the only drink I remember having, and then waking up with him on me.

I know that's just one example, but I really don't believe that I drank too much that night. And I don't believe that women drinking less, would result in less rapes.

I think there are two things that will make the most difference are:

  1. Changing social attitudes. The idea of having sex with anyone who isn't enthusiastic about it, should be socially looked down on. It shouldn't be a joke or acceptable or normal, it should be seen as something that only losers do.
  1. Toughening up the law on rape so that it's actually taken seriously as a crime.
Aesopfable · 22/02/2020 15:30

Been trying to find some advice I saw a while ago but can’t but it went something like this:

Rape Advice!
1.Don’t drink too much at it may affect you judgement and ability to understand when women say ‘no’.

  1. When you go out, take a buddy with you to ensure you don’t rape anyone.
  2. Rape alarms are good. Take one with you and set it off to alert women around you if you think you might consider raping one of them.
  3. Never walk home alone as this might make you vulnerable to your criminal urges.
user53976478853 · 22/02/2020 15:41

"Also rape isn't for life, you can move past it or just learn to live with it..."

I get why people say this kind of thing, I think, and I'm glad it holds true for some people, but the insistence from some of those railing against victim blaming that it's not my fault for being raped but that it is basically my fault for not recovering really pisses me off.

MangoFeverDream · 22/02/2020 16:38

You could apply all of that 'common sense' to robbery, but people will still go around with wallets and purses full of cash, then showing them in public as they attempt to buy a round of drinks, etc

Yeah but robbery is much easier to prosecute and while ppl still blame the victim for sure there’s no sense it should go unpunished or that the robber didn’t realise that they were stealing etc etc

JuanSheetIsPlenty · 22/02/2020 16:44

Say NO to any sex you don't want.

Ahhh! So that’s all we need to do. If only we knew that. So rape has been completely wiped out now we all know to just say “no”?

Angry

It’s so fucking insulting to rape victims who did say no, screamed no, again and again and again.

I saw this reported on fb yesterday and saw a comment from a man underneath saying there were only 15/16 rapes in 2017 (or some recent year) Hmm

RippleEffects · 22/02/2020 16:46

Make yourself clearly understood.

That actually makes every fibre of my being stand on end. Obviously it's not rape if you've not politely said please don't rape me in several languages and phrased it in multiple ways just to ensure you're not misleading by your existence and detracting from the rapists right to see how much they can get away with.

JuanSheetIsPlenty · 22/02/2020 16:50

I want to see leaflets saying

“Watch what you drink- if you drink too much you miss body language and clear signals from someone telling you to leave them alone”

“Keep an eye on your friends- are they harassing someone? If so, intervene.”

“Keep an eye on what’s going on around you. Is there someone behaving in a suspicious or predatory manner? Report them to security or police and describe their behaviours”