RUGBY review of transgender women in women's sports

[mindtheclegs]

twitter.com/WNTTgra/status/1230840273854488577

World Rugby is preparing for a "comprehensive review" of the sport's policies on transgender players.

The governing body will hold a forum next week to consult "expert voices" and is seeking elite players' views.

As a reason for the review, World Rugby cites research suggesting that reducing testosterone does not lower strength and power proportionately.

"World Rugby's vision is 'a sport for all, true to its values'," said World Rugby chairman Sir Bill Beaumont.

"There is growing recognition of the importance of autonomy of gender identity in society and all sports are currently evaluating their policies to ensure that they are fit-for-purpose in the modern sporting and societal landscape.

"Rugby is no different and this forum makes it possible to explore the best available evidence and hear the relevant expert opinions."

World Rugby follows the International Olympic Committee's (IOC) policy. Guidelines issued by the IOC in November 2015 stated that transgender women must suppress testosterone levels for at least 12 months before competition. Testosterone is a hormone that increases muscle mass.

Athletes transitioning from female to male are allowed to participate without restrictions, but the IOC is currently developing new guidelines.

"It is important for contact sports, such as rugby, to find an appropriate position for player welfare and risk," a World Rugby statement said.

Im interested why you're less concerned about the impact in women's rugby league

Much more niche sport. Less numbers. Less media coverage for attention seekers etc.

It’s all assertion on my part, but I genuinely feel less concerned that there will be men trying to play in the women’s game.

Head down and carry on - RL to a tee

RFL governing body said its review into its current policies and operational rules re: trans participants was to conclude in autumn 2019.

I have a vague memory of an issue being highlighted last year about a female rugby league player who was transitioning/transitioned whilst hoping to play in male league.

Its a different welfare issue but this would mean that some players could be taking a significant amount of testosterone.

I have a vague memory of an issue being highlighted last year about a female rugby league player who was transitioning/transitioned whilst hoping to play in male league

I would be interested to see a link as I haven’t been aware of any. I’m aware of a trans rugby league player, however they’re a transman; they’re not taking hormones and continue to play with women.

Sorry totally misread your post! We’re discussing the same person.

As my daughter says, if a transman chooses to play with men, the only person at risk is themselves and they can consent. If a transwoman plays, everyone else is at risk without their consent.

Your daughter sums up the issues well.

There is, I think, a need to consider other players welfare if a transman is taking testosterone & continues in women's.

I doubt the referees & clubs would permit a female to play in male teams. They would still have a duty of care towards an individual player's welfare.

I think the player is now part of a mixed sex wheelchair rugby league team?

I think the player is now part of a mixed sex wheelchair rugby league team?

I have no issue with this, or indeed mixed PDRL.

To be fair, if I know the RFL, they’re very good at “consulting” which becomes an airy fairy, never-ending process with no results. I suppose another reason I’m less worried.

Coaching wise I will back any of my players to the hilt if they choose to not play with a man.

Coaching wise I will back any of my players to the hilt if they choose to not play with a man.

I think players need coaches, referees & clubs to take a stand like yours.

There's a RFU coach who has said she would walk her female players off the pitch if a male was in the opposing team.

One of the first articles I have read about the rugby review. Interesting to hear from a transman.

news.sky.com/story/transgender-women-in-rugby-do-not-pose-danger-to-other-players-says-trans-man-11943106

Verity Smith made those statements last year & I think at the time was hoping to play in men's teams. My understanding is that (as perhaps this was not possible?) Smith now plays mixed sex wheelchair rugby.

I saw that Winesalot. Interesting that they chose to interview a transman instead of a transwoman. Wonder why....?

Does anyone know if Courtney Lawes (current England rugby player) has expressed views on transwomen playing rugby with women?

From Courtney's twitter he appears to be outspokenly un-woke. It looks like he's a fan of Zuby and Ricky Gervais, and is against identity politics. He has four young children.

That is interesting, isn’t it. If Verity was not accepted to play in a male team, it would be interesting to know why.

There is a current discussion gong on in parallel about how rugby players are tending towards being "all-rounders", rather than the specialists we currently see (the nimble little wings, the bulky flankers etc).

The trend is basically moving towards the whole team being bigger and heavier and stronger. So more like a bunch of 16stone brick walls than 10 stone whippets. A woman would genuinely be risking her life to get in amongst that in a full contact game.

If mediocre men who cannot make it into the second team decide to join the women's team, their lower skill level (hence why they are not in the men's teams) will cause serious injuries to all around them

MarieQueenofScots

"I’m aware of a trans rugby league player, however they’re a transman; they’re not taking hormones and continue to play with women."

You do realise that you are talking about the opposite situation, where a transman competing in rugby league, will be completely overpowered by human males - men?
It is because they are a woman.
Humans cannot change sex.
Why is this not obvious?

BTW welcome back Rowan, hope you had a good rest from this madness.

But Verity Smith, a transgender man who continued to play for Rotherham Ladies while transitioning, fears any change to the rules could see trans people excluded from sport.

"I don't think it's dangerous," Smith told Sky News.

news.sky.com/story/transgender-women-in-rugby-do-not-pose-danger-to-other-players-says-trans-man-11943106

well if it ain't dangerous, you play with blokes.

You do realise that you are talking about the opposite situation, where a transman competing in rugby league, will be completely overpowered by human males - men?

Erm yes. DO see the rest of my posts.

I’m a rugby league and union player/coach. I have a very vested interest and am fully aware of the differences between men and women and transmen and transwomen.

fears any change to the rules could see trans people excluded from sport

Shame Verity isn’t quite so concerned about biological women being excluded from sport.

www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/02/25/clarifying-rugbys-thorny-issue-transgender-players-hormone-levels/amp/

Headlines like this enrage me. It isn't and shouldn't be a "thorny issue". No men in women's sports. Ever.

Plus testosterone levels are only part of it!!!

headline writers just troll the readers nowadays

I am just glad they report it

www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/02/26/new-zealand-rugby-inspired-introducing-national-under-85kg-competition/

Just as World Rugby is looking at a comprehensive review re transgender New Zealand Rugby is trailblazing a national competition for players (male) weighing under 85kg (13 stone 5lbs).

The feature, which takes up the entire back page of the sports pullout in the DT is behind a paywall but it says "In conventional rugby terms 85kg is paltry."

They article says the benefits for rugby in New Zealand , where playing numbers are declining are palpable: small players are more likely to continue participating and because they are wonderfully skilful, the baseline skills across the sport will increase.

The article ponders what happens to the lighter players that cannot physically mix it with the big boys?

"Do they plough on, knowing their joints are to be rearranged by 17st breeze blocks each week? The braver ones might, of course, procuring some valiant David-over-Goliath tales for their grandchildren. But those with less gumption call it a day, their talent never realised....." The article goes on in the same vein.

World Rugby are you listening? When the world's leading rugby country understands that bigger against smaller cannot work even among males, can you seriously think trans women against women is at all feasible even in the sainted name of inclusivity?

Update here:

Ross Tucker
@Scienceofsport
The #transgender athlete in sport meeting organized by
@WorldRugby
is now done. I want to share the PROCESS (*not the outcomes, at least not yet) with you, explain why it was designed that way, and what the next steps will be. Here are all the delegates, and this is a thread (1/)

It finally dawned on them they were going to get sued to infinity and beyond when the serious concussions, broken bones and deaths started to stack up.

The thread is quite detailed and relates to the process rather than the outcome but yes, the legal/medical consequences are key.