RUGBY review of transgender women in women's sports

[mindtheclegs]

twitter.com/WNTTgra/status/1230840273854488577

World Rugby is preparing for a "comprehensive review" of the sport's policies on transgender players.

The governing body will hold a forum next week to consult "expert voices" and is seeking elite players' views.

As a reason for the review, World Rugby cites research suggesting that reducing testosterone does not lower strength and power proportionately.

"World Rugby's vision is 'a sport for all, true to its values'," said World Rugby chairman Sir Bill Beaumont.

"There is growing recognition of the importance of autonomy of gender identity in society and all sports are currently evaluating their policies to ensure that they are fit-for-purpose in the modern sporting and societal landscape.

"Rugby is no different and this forum makes it possible to explore the best available evidence and hear the relevant expert opinions."

World Rugby follows the International Olympic Committee's (IOC) policy. Guidelines issued by the IOC in November 2015 stated that transgender women must suppress testosterone levels for at least 12 months before competition. Testosterone is a hormone that increases muscle mass.

Athletes transitioning from female to male are allowed to participate without restrictions, but the IOC is currently developing new guidelines.

"It is important for contact sports, such as rugby, to find an appropriate position for player welfare and risk," a World Rugby statement said.

Forgot to include my own point

My partner is very much a supporter of the LQBT+ community, but even he baulked at the idea that, if I still participated in martial arts, I could be paired with a male-bodied person. That's the closest I have ever come to peak-transing him, along with when i asked if he would want his mother to be forced to receive a smear or breast exam from a natal male, on threat of expulsion from GP services (of which there are few in our neck of the woods, so you would essentially be prevented from accessing the NHS).

"Regardless of dysphoria, why would any competitor of any sport choose to be so... unsporting? It's almost like they don't want the playing field to be fair."

This is exactly why I can't fathom why sports associations allow it. Competitive sports by their nature aren't supposed to be "inclusive" - but they are supposed to be fair. Hence the women / male segregated sports and the Paralympics and their categories. (Yes, I'm aware of the unfairness of developed countries having more funding re dev of athletes compared to poorer countries but that's a different issue).
Any decent and credible sportsman / sportswoman would not allow an obliteration of fair play.

It's why I'm so angered at the women team members of a county cricket club in celebrating their player of the year, a new player who'd never played with them before and a transwoman, This transwomen helped said club so far better than they had done for a long while. Who apparently says they have a medical condition which has rendered their testosterone levels minimum from birth (but no medical documents to prove it).

The Indian women's cricket team will be facing an English team shortly in an which there will be biological males. It's not just the ECG I'm angry with, it's the English women who are supporting it, for their own gain.

It’s the contact sport thing that gets me. I mean, rugby is dangerous enough anyway. I know a few players and they’ve had dislocations and concussions all over the place. My step-bro recently chose to stop playing after one of the opposing team deliberately brought a scrum down onto him - we thought he’d broken his neck and he ended up in an ambulance, although thankfully he was fine. And he’s 6 foot plus and built like a brick shithouse. Surely the point is to test yourself against an equivalent opponent - not put yourself into a situation where you have such an advantage that you’ll annihilate someone. Where’s the test in that? It’s like, I can run faster than my son, but I’m not going to get any massive ego boost from beating him in a race, he’s half my size! So what’s the point?

Mind, do you have a source for the England India cricket match? Have England selected a male-bodied player?

Pink News propaganda machine :

'Anti-trans campaign group to attend World Rugby review on transgender players'
PATRICK KELLEHER FEBRUARY 21, 2020
(extract)
World Rugby has revealed that it will host a forum in London next week which will decide future policy on trans players’ right to participate in the game.

In a statement, the organisation said it was consulting with “expert voices” as well as the global women’s game ahead of the forum.

Anti-trans campaign group Fair Play For Women has revealed on Twitter that they will be one of the “expert voices” participating in next week’s forum." (continues)

concludes:
The forum is unlikely to spell good news for trans women in rugby. In a statement, World Rugby said: “With the latest research suggesting that a reduction of testosterone does not lead to a proportionate reduction in strength and power, it is important for contact sports, such as rugby, to find an appropriate position for player welfare and risk.”

World Rugby has not revealed a full line-up of expert voices participating in the forum.

If the organisation decides to reduce the allowable testosterone level, trans women could be pushed out of the sport entirely."
www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/02/21/world-rugby-trans-women-policy-testosterone-london-forum-fair-play-for-women/

Trans women who wish to play or be part of rugby will not be 'pushed out of the sport entirely' they will simply have to be be bound by sex-based Safeguarding as is the case for all other males.

Maybe this will be the message that the male teams need to be more inclusive. Or is it just that transwomen want to be only at elite athlete level against women?

Its not just about elite level.
Most of the reports are about males enjoying playing women's rugby at lower local levels.

Rugby can be more dangerous at amateur levels.

Yes I agree wholeheartedly R0wantrees,

R0wantrees Absolutely, it was an amateur game - playing against a team that weren’t as good - that nearly did for my step-brother. People get frustrated and do stupid things - or they get good enough to be dangerous, not good enough to be safe.

A friend of DH's had life-changing head injuries from a rugby tackle at local recreational level. He was a decent player and very sturdy for a centre. He's had to give up working and have extensive rehab. If it had been a woman on the receiving end of that tackle I imagine it'd be even worse news.

I’m not a rugby player but I’m 5’10 so taller than the average woman and pretty strong - but if someone my brother’s size tackled me hard I’d be in a world of hurt.

To me, if this published study has been peer reviewed, it should be shutting down most, if not all, argument for transwomen’s inclusion into women’s sports.

Winesalot This is the study
Effects of moderately increased testosterone concentration on physical performance in young women: a double blind, randomised, placebo controlled study

It was published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, one of the BMJ journals, so definitely peer reviewed.

I used to watch women’s cricket and rugby. I refuse to be complicit in what is going on. I am not interested in watching what is actually mixed sex sport, unless it is stated honestly that’s is what it is.

So I refuse to watch either now. Until these asinine rules are reversed, that will continue.

Thanks R0wantrees and Lang for the referee links, knew I wasn’t dreaming it- and again, in The Times!
Can’t believe ECB would field a transwoman in the Women’s Team. This might peak everyone I know! Massive cricket family, my mum played for her county- she’ll have kittens.
Off to find link

Great news that they are reviewing. I have sent a little billet-doux to [email protected]...

Dear World Rugby

I was pleased to read yesterday that you are intending to start a review around the policies regarding the inclusion of trans identifying players in women’s rugby. As a former player myself (My former club name), this is a topic that is extremely close to my heart.

Women’s rugby must be kept safe and competitive for women, and the only way to do that is to maintain it as a single sex sport. There is no safe way to include male bodies in female sports, particularly not in a contact sport like rugby. Regardless of the gender identity or stage of transition of a natal male, there is simply no way to reverse or mitigate the changes that happen at puberty that result in males being significantly stronger, taller, faster and more muscular than females.

It’s dangerous to women to fail to acknowledge the differences between male and female bodies. There is currently no robust science supporting the idea that gender transition significantly impacts physical characteristics such that the essential differences between male and female bodies stop mattering. Lowering testosterone levels is one factor, however, there are so many more: VO2 max, height, reach, grip strength, neck strength, body fat levels, musculature, biomechanical factors such as angle of hip bones etc that do not change, no matter what medical or surgical interventions have been undertaken.

I understand that Dr Nicola Williams of Fair Play For Women will be attending the event, and I would urge you to take what she says on board.

Please prioritise women and girls and allow our sports to continue to be safe, fair and competitive. It’s really important. I am all for inclusion in sports as I want everyone to be able to get as much from the joy and liberation of sport as I have, but unfortunately being inclusive sometimes inevitably means that we have to exclude some people. In women’s sport, that line of inclusion has to continue to be drawn at the boundary of biology, because we play sports with our bodies, and not our gender identities. The progressive step forward might be to consider how male sports can be made more welcoming to LGBT men - Women’s Rugby has always been extremely inclusive to LGBT people, so perhaps it is time for men to step up?

Great email

Thanks soldiers!

The more I think about this, the crosser I get.

My husband and I both played rugby, in a rugby loving city with many teams. In my team, somewhere between a third and half of the players were lesbian or bisexual. I don’t know exactly, because it was a complete non issue. At that same time, my husbands team were one of the few who would play against the gay rugby team that had recently started up - most of the other men’s teams refused to do so. They refused to play against the LGBT team. My husband was furious about that, and made a point of making himself available to the gay team if they needed a front row.

Misogyny and homophobia was then, and is now, fucking RIFE in men’s rugby, but it’s the women’s teams who need to be more inclusive? The women’s teams that have always been an extremely welcoming and safe place for lesbian and bisexual women? FUCK OFF with that, and sort out your own damn house!

"It is important for contact sports, such as rugby, to find an appropriate position for player welfare and risk," a World Rugby statement said.

AND WHY IS THAT? You know the answer, World Rugby. You know full well.

That's such a good letter SophocIestheFox
We need comparable letters for all the fools running swimming, athletics, cycling and all the other sports where biological differences disadvantage women.

Excellent letter, fox

Thanks wims - the address is actually [email protected], rather than .com. I banged it out while I was still in bed this morning, then confused myself about where I was actually sending it

DH plays Rugby (amateur, not professional). He coaches regimental teams in the Army. He, and mist of the other players he knows, thinks transwomen in female teams is dangerous and madness. His comment today was 'ir doesn't matter if I was to reduce my tetesterone to zero, I would still have my muscles and bone structure (and he is relatively small for a guy, we are the same height,170).

The forces allow males who identify as women to play in female rugby teams.

A couple of years ago on a thread a FWR poster described how women were injured.

I have been involved with women’s rugby (league and union) for many years.

I’m less concerned about the trans threat in league, but very much welcome the consultation by World Rugby.

MarieQueenofScots Im interested why you're less concerned about the impact in women's rugby league.