Labour phone canvasser whingeing about transphobia

[teawamutu]

Self-identified, obvs - might be bollocks. But it's interesting:

Perhaps they need to reassess their concept of a hate group.

Perhaps they need to reassess their concept of a hate group.

Quite. I mean WPUK aren't exactly 'DIAF' and barbed wire baseball bats, are they? It's more 'will you please put your listening ears on and get a grip' with dictionary definitions on t shirts.

Less a hate group than a fed up and exasperated group.

How heartening though that so many people are speaking out about it now.Surely this will come to a head soon

I think is going to rumble on for some years yet, myself. The best hope is that the Tories shelve ID for long enough to permit full debate to happen, and for the issues to come even more to a head in the countries which already have self ID. It could be 10/15 years, I think.

Can someone explain what is the objection to condemning transphobia? I don't mean the MN interpretation of it, I mean actual transphobia

What is 'actual transphobia', though? It has been the case for years now - that any debate at all is transphobic ( apparently "denying the existence" of trans people); that believing it is impossible to change sex is transphobic; that suggesting women are adult human beings is transphobic; demanding single sex spaces is transphobic; anything other than total subservience to trans ideology is transphobic.

Can someone explain what is the objection to condemning transphobia?

“A shepherd-boy, who watched a flock of sheep near a village, brought out the villagers three or four times by crying out, "Wolf! Wolf!" and when his neighbors came to help him, laughed at them for their pains.

 The Wolf, however, did truly come at last. The Shepherd-boy, now really alarmed, shouted in an agony of terror: "Pray, do come and help me; the Wolf is killing the sheep"; but no one paid any heed to his cries, nor rendered any assistance. The Wolf, having no cause of fear, at his leisure lacerated or destroyed the whole flock.

 There is no believing a liar, even when he speaks the truth.“

I got called earlier today by a RLB campaigner but was working and couldn't talk. I then spent spare moments in the rest of the day composing in my head what I would have said about self-id etc. I almost wish they'd call back, although it's disheartening that despite many people doing the same we're all still just being dismissed as 'transphobes' rather than left-wing people (also often gay or lesbian or bisexual ourselves) with genuine concerns.

Michelleoftheresistance I definitely identify as a member of the fed up and exasperated group.
I have been very pleased to hear that the local dog walkers (a motley crew of generally apolitical people) are all fully acquainted with the lunacies of the labour party candidates and as we trudge through the mud, universally deride the notions of babies born with no sex and rapists in women's prisons. There's a lot of amusement and derision from all.

there was a time where you couldn't mention islamic terrorism without someone accusing you of 'islamophobia'. I think we're at a similar splitting point between genderism as a dangerous and regressive ideology and acceptance of gender non conformity (which covers most of us let's face it!)

Aw, did Ben find Benself talking to some nasty people who believe that material reality exists and is quite important when crafting party policy? Who would ever have expected socialists to have a firm grasp on class analysis?

(Well, the rank and file anyway, the leadership not so much.)

That Ben grub is a typical woman-hating chauvinist sexist pig.

Can someone explain what is the objection to condemning transphobia? I don't mean the MN interpretation of it, I mean actual transphobia

A post on MN - not on this section - was genuinely transphobic. Asserted all transwomen were violent and scary. I reported it. Because claiming all members of a group are arseholes is bigotry.

Saying males do not belong in places that are single sex, and restricted to women, for our dignity, privacy and safety is not bigoted. On the country, asserting that males should be prioritised over our safety and dignity and ability to participate in eg sport, or politics, at all is bigoted: that's misogyny.

This should not be complicated to anyone with good faith.

I think is going to rumble on for some years yet, myself. The best hope is that the Tories shelve ID for long enough to permit full debate to happen, and for the issues to come even more to a head in the countries which already have self ID. It could be 10/15 years, I think

So, if it does rumble on, what to do about the introduction of self-id by stealth by most big organisations. It feels like we have been sleepwalked into self-id - how do they/we backtrack on that? Or do we think it is possible that they will start to dis-associate themselves from this car crash?

I think Stonewall is the shoe that has yet to drop. People, including corporates, still don’t realise what a vile and corrupt thing it has become. They still think it’s good for nice easy diversity points - all the better since they get to promote some nice white men as their evidence of diversity. No pesky women with their maternity leave and ‘female problems’ or black people making everyone uncomfortable by talking about racism. Just a nice white guy with a rainbow pin on his suit and they’re done.

They do not know about Alex Drummond (the bearded lesbian) or the now gone Aimee Challoner and their horrifying family history which seemed not to raise any eyebrows with Aimee or anyone else or the campaign to eradicate single sex spaces entirely.

I would love to see the Times do an expose on them. Then I think corporates would drop them like a stone and then we would be making progress.

the now gone Aimee Challoner and their horrifying family history which seemed not to raise any eyebrows with Aimee or anyone else or the campaign to eradicate single sex spaces entirely.

As an aside, Aimee appears to have joined the Elizabeth Warren fan club. I don't know if Aimee has any actual connection or if Aimee is just tweeting from here.

(Eliz. Warren of course who is busily prostrating herself at the TRAs collective feet. I'm sure there's no connection)

I think Stonewall is the shoe that has yet to drop.

This. It can't be repeated enough that they are a biased, political lobby group acting in their own interests, and that wouldn't be ok to have setting and writing policy even without all the other issues. There has been a major due diligence failure, with people from such lobby groups delivering training who were not qualified, did not know the law, have misrepresented fact and created the mess we're in. Stonewall have been trusted as an impartial expert group, not least because of govt funding, and everyone's blindly regarded them in the light of the National Trust, or the British Heart Foundation instead of in the light of the Young Conservative Association, or the Christian Fellowship. Perfectly acceptable political organisation, but with a clear bias and perspective that must be taken into account, and care taken in trainings and education that commissioners don't lay themselves open to accusations of bias, politicisation, representing one view as the 'right' view against others, or indoctrination.

However since the Labour candidates pulled this further into the sunlight we've had several days of people saying things on radio and in the papers that I don't think would have been possible even three months ago, and it's put it on the general public's radar. The response is overwhelmingly wtf? I'm starting to think a future of 'be who you want, that's great, that's to be celebrated, but TW and women are two different groups with different needs and provision' is starting to become a stronger public idea.

Hi Helen! Gosh, you’re obsessed with us aren’t you.

Stonewall have been trusted as an impartial expert group, not least because of govt funding, and everyone's blindly regarded them in the light of the National Trust, or the British Heart Foundation instead of in the light of the Young Conservative Association, or the Christian Fellowship.

Wisdom right here. Thank you Michelle

Yes, fucking yes!

St Stonewall, patron saint of poor confused kiddies rather than, eg, the NRA or the tobacco lobby.