Labour phone canvasser whingeing about transphobia

[teawamutu]

Self-identified, obvs - might be bollocks. But it's interesting:

Also grateful to TheWordWoman for the link to the survey.

Lots of lovely free-text boxes to write comments in.

It was truly cathartic.

Can someone explain what is the objection to condemning transphobia? I don't mean the MN interpretation of it, I mean actual transphobia.

Perhaps it would be helpful for you to supply the actual definition of transphobia.

And the definition of 'transgender' while we're at it.

The Google dictionary - the one the kids use - says, 'denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex.'

So, me then? If Mermaids defines a female as a jelly baby Barbie liking pink and glitter, then my 'sense' of personal ID and gender doesn't match my birth sex of female.

Oh and I'm not on Twitter anymore but would simply post this to those who likes to single out women and daren't challenge the bepenised:

For crying out loud

JudyCoolibar
Can someone explain what is the objection to condemning transphobia? I don't mean the MN interpretation of it, I mean actual transphobia.

Can you point out where you saw an objection to condemning actual dictionary defined transphobia? If you can then you should alert the post.

But I doubt if you can find any posts like that because no one here is objecting to actual transphobia. No one. The objection is to the crying of ‘transphobia’ to anything, everything, anyone, everyone that does not march in lockstep with TRA ideology or mindlessly mouth the mantra TWAW.

Can someone explain what is the objection to condemning transphobia?

Thinking about it honestly, do you think that when Ben rang all these Labour Party members (so traditionally left leaning types)

a) he was confronted by numerous people saying that they hate transgender people, that transgender people are sick and disgusting, that they all need a good beating and other

*Correction to my previous post because I missed the crucial word ‘condemning’ out :
“.. no one here Is objecting to condemning actual transphobia....”

Great hashtag on a couple of the comments: #everyoneofyoucameoutofoneofus

I saw a post somewhere saying that performance and presentation doesn't actually make you the thing you are creating with yourself.
This would mean Rachel Dolezal was actually black, because the presented and performed 'black woman'.
We all we are then left with is belief. Belief is not enough to make biology stop being real.

Haha....that post is a mess. I think the jist is still clear

I wonder if that white woman - who was adamant that she is black - with her equally white husband ever did have a black baby?

She seemed convinced that a combination of sun beds, a special diet (lord knows what) and absolute belief And her baby would be born black.

Who is to say that she isn’t black?

Indeed, Xanthangum, love that hash tag!

The question in my mind is as simple as this: if transwomen who can use urinals (i.e. are awaiting or not seeking surgical transition and have functioning penises) are not feeling welcome or even safe in men's toilets (and other single-sex male spaces) and want to access women's toilets (and other single-sex female spaces) because they feel safer and more welcomed there, who are the transphobes?

If what transwomen actually fear most is male violence, they do indeed have something more fundamental in common with the female half of the population than silky underwear, mascara and high heels.

Why not tackle the real transphobes at source and stop alienating potential allies by labelling and attacking us?

Lorks. Just googled her (Martina Big) and the current outrage is that she....has.....lied.

About her age.

It is my pleasure.
I also find it very cathartic to respond to the canvassing emails I receive telling them to not bother contacting me again unless it is to confirm that they now agree that the word woman applies to all biological females and that they are prepared to maintain and fight for my rights.
Not the mealy mouthed commitment they spout at the moment where womens' rights centres men.

Possibly a helpful idea to straighten things out in mind is to stop thinking of specific social groups and the implied special rules and just think in terms of:

I don't agree with anyone experiencing reduced access to law, justice, public spaces, employment and employment law, education, health care, conditions etc for any reason pertaining to their race, religion, sex, sexuality, gender identity, disability, political affiliation.

I don't agree with anyone experiencing harassment, intimidation, assault or violence for any reason for the list above.

This includes women. The law supports the above. Equality.

Not special permissions for special people, who are only happy if another group is suppressed and oppressed by being denied equal access to the above to prove how very much more special the special people are.

I can believe in the laws protecting from discrimination above and still believe that TW and women are two definitely distinct groups, need different things, and providing for in different ways. And that someone's personal choice of gender identity can be respected without their requiring the erasure of the female class, their rights and provisions. And that sane people have no problem understanding this.

I also don't believe it is a 'right' or should be a 'right' for any person to be able to identify into the spaces and resources that society has set aside and funded to address the particular needs, disadvantages and inequalities of a group of people with objectively real needs, when they do not in reality have those needs or belong to that group. Have what identity you like, be who you feel, but those spaces and resources are reserved for those who objectively and genuinely have those needs, they are not validation resources.

Not for age, not for race, not for religion, not for disability, not for sex. Otherwise this affects the provisions, identity, rights and resources that group in genuine need require, and is in itself an act of discrimination and privilege towards them. No one should be able to identify into anything that cannot equally be identified out of.

NearlyGranny
Some trans women fear male violence, yes. These would be the trans woman quietly going about their business. These trans women feel affiliation to natal women and don’t buy into the tra magic. As for the TRA’s, their behaviour is male in every way. Their response to a woman exercising their sex based rights is to threaten them with violence, to kill or rape them. They are not threatened by the average man and have no desire to empathise or affiliate with natal women.

Have what identity you like, be who you feel, but those spaces and resources are reserved for those who objectively and genuinely have those needs, they are not validation resources.

Beautifully put.

But... but... but... nobody cares about this issue! It never comes up on doorsteps! It's not a thing! And that has NOTHING to do with any deliberate attempt to avoid anyone knowing it's going on! There is absolutely NO conflict between women's rights and a policy that removes the definition of what a woman is, plus houses rapists alongside women in locked spaces and allows any male to ID into any women's spaces they like. Anyone arguing is a bigot!

Ben: people don't seem keen on the very definition of what a woman is being altered, so all their rights can be removed from under their feet. OMG, transphobes!

Fear not, Ben: Labour can be a "kinder, warmer" and ever tinier party with your intense determination to erase women, and expel any who dare to complain about it. Keep going. Conference'll be in a room over a pub in a decade if you just try hard enough!

Have what identity you like, be who you feel, but those spaces and resources are reserved for those who objectively and genuinely have those needs, they are not validation resources.

This.

Fear not, Ben: Labour can be a "kinder, warmer" and ever tinier party with your intense determination to erase women,

Kinder, warmer, tinier

🤣

I'm a little lost about why Ash Sarkar is now quoting Ben Shapiro. For all sorts of reasons, I wouldn't have guessed she was a fan, tbh.

So it is just Mumsnetters who have been egging people on? Oh please. I don't know any Mumsnetters IRL and all the women I have discussed self ID with all find it to be completely bonkers and dangerous for women. My foreign friends are especially aghast.

Aaaanyway. I have put stickers with the definition of women as well as stickers informing that "this is a single sex space according to the Equality Act of 2010" in 8 toilets this week. Might not keep the TWs away but will at least let other women know that they have that right.

Remember: A woman's place is in the resistance!

Correction to my previous post because I missed the crucial word ‘condemning’ out
“.. no one here Is objecting to condemning actual transphobia....”

OMG I just noticed I did EXACTLY the same thing in my post!

I'm thinking back to the start of the leadership campaigns when Jess Phillips did her webchat and when someone claimed labour would not win an election while denying the material reality of sex. Jess claimed that in 5 years of canvassing no one had ever mentioned anything to do any of this to her. I'm guessing she will start to see people mention it, the overton window has truly been cast open by that pledge.