Duncan Bannatyne on Twitter

[Awning10]

If anyone is interested, there's a conversation going on re access to the changing rooms on Duncan's Twitter.

twitter.com/DuncanBannatyne

The first post I read mentioned people transitioning to the sex they preferred - didn't bother reading after that level of intelligence.

Duncan's quote: "Ok so a man is walking into ladies changing area. Staff stop and he says I am transgender they say sorry and let him walk straight in amongst the ladies, young girls and children. Not in my world Mel. Not gonna happen when I am there".

But he's also said if a man fully transitions to a woman by removing his penis, he can use the ladies, and earlier in the conversation he said a transwoman wouldnt he stopped using the ladies.

His message seems to be a bit all over the place, and I'm still not sure where he stands.

I'm still not sure where he stands.

I think he, Ricky Gervais and many others feel once the penis is removed that makes someone 'truly trans'.

I think he did say a few months back that the changing rooms in his gyms were off-limits to trans women?

He's pretty gender critical from what I remember.

Perhaps he's still evolving in his understanding, or perhaps he thinks the current legal balance is about right. I think that anyone prepared to stand up to extremists (in this case TRAs) is worthy of respect, even if their views don't align exactly with my own. And especially when the extremists have taken over the second largest political party in the UK.

Looking at his Twitter feed, he tweets about gender identity stuff a lot and in pretty brusque terms. No one seems to give him grief about it either, which is interesting.

It's another man defining woman as a man without surgery.

I can see why he thinks that should be the line, but he doesn't take into account that women and girls would have to trust that the male in front of them has had surgery. And that the acceptance of male transpeople in womens spaces is to normalise male people in women's spaces.

I think a lot of them think that after the penis is removed it's not possible to notice they were once men.

Apologies, in my post a few posts back, I meant to say that DB had said that trans women weren't welcomed in the women's changing rooms, not that they're not welcome in the changing rooms full stop.

I think a lot of them think that after the penis is removed it's not possible to notice they were once men.

I think they do. They think males who physically transition are delicate fey creatures.

Tbh I appreciate that he’s stood up against this nonsense. 90%+ transwomen retain their penis and at least removing it shows a level of commitment.

(FWIW I don’t believe women have or used to have a penis)

I think for a lot of men, it is inconceivable to think of a man without a penis as a man. And for far too many men, women are merely non-men, so for them, the whole issue is a question of the presence or absence of a penis.

This is still highly misogynists, even when they agree people with penises shouldn’t use women’s changing rooms.

PerfectParrot

Perhaps he's still evolving in his understanding, or perhaps he thinks the current legal balance is about right

Yes the current legal obligation he has (and we all have), is to accept transpeople who have a GRC.
He has to say this publicly.

Like Ricky, he knows.

I have no objection to males who have sufficient gender dysphoria to have their penis removed using a female changing room. I don't feel they are a physical threat to me and they're unlikely to be having a wank after watching me in my undies. It's intact males with male testosterone levels and functioning penises who have no place in women's changing rooms, no matter how much make up they wear. They can use the men's changing room and re-educate the men.

@2Rebecca

I agree.
The only problem for these trans women is that so few of them pass, almost all of them (and I speak from experience, I've known a lot) still just look like cross dressing men. I feel quite sad for them really, they've had painful and drastic surgery, commiting to a lifetime of medication and you can still spot them a mile off.

To be fair, for lots of women, the penis is the problem.
People often post on here how they "don't want penises in the female changing room".
I think he does get it somewhat, though.

Oh, and penis or no penis, I don't think they should be competing against women in sport.

A close friend of mine has had the surgery and now suffers long-term anxiety and paranoia because she is aware she doesn't really cut it as a woman. (not to mention the physical suffering) Happy to share my space with her (and refer to her as a woman) but self ID, no thanks

I think that even the presence of a GRC plus surgery (which almost no transwomen have gone through and certainly not something the current bunch of activists have bothered to go through), there is no automatic entitlement to single sex spaces.

The law is badly worded, presumably because it was never envisaged for use in this ludicrous situation. But I think the single sex exemption might still be able to be upheld even in a surgery plus GRC situation if it is deemed proportionate to the aims of the service.

My problem with that argument (someone post penis removal) is that I don't want to encourage anyone down the route of dangerous surgery on a previously healthy body. I think there should be far, far more treatment and support for gender dysphoria, and more research into the effects of PTSD and trauma.

Dear men
Please don't bother removing your testicles and penis if you imagine it will make your presence more palatable to me when I am naked. It will not, and you will be disappointed. I will not distinguish between intact men and castrated men, and I will not consider the amputation of your genitalia renders you magically somehow 'like me'.
Keep your tackle, or don't, it's neither here nor there to me, but I remain the opposite sex to you and my barriers to you remain intact regardless of what futile scrotal origami you attempt.

This was a public service announcement on behalf of the sex who are not actually just dickless men, surprisingly.

@Barracker . I hear what you're saying. Personally, I don't think I would mind anyone who had had penis removal within female changing rooms, but I respect that not everyone might be accepting of that.

Self ID is definitely not the answer here

Brilliant Barracker (as usual!).

The problem is that, even if most women were happy to have men with their penis removed in the women's changing room, there is no way of knowing this when the person walks in. Penis or not they are normally easily recognised as men.

That's why we don't check genitals at changing room doors, we don't need to.

The problem is that, even if most women were happy to have men with their penis removed in the women's changing room, there is no way of knowing this when the person walks in. Penis or not they are normally easily recognised as men

This - also can’t tell in toilets, refuges, dormitory accommodation, hospital wards etc...

Agree with KenDodd- won’t affect male anatomical, physiological and biomechanical advantages in sport.