Lucy (WPUK supporter) on LBC now

[Cwenthryth]

I didn’t catch the start to know exactly who you are, but I know you must be on here somewhere. You rock, sister. Thankyou for speaking up. And it sounds like Shelagh Fogarty gets it.

Lucy used the kind of language that women not immersed in feminist politics would understand and respond to. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of feminist scholars but the jargon can put people off.
Lucy speaks to 'ordinary' women.

(I don't think ANY women are ordinary, but I'm sure you get my gist).

What did that guy say?

'The Labour Party was founded to defend marginalised groups.'

No. The Labour Party was founded by the Trade Union movement to represent the interests of working men ('working people' would be stretching it) in parliament now that many of them (working men) had the vote.

This is baby stuff.

Lucy was as good as I expected her to be! And wow Sheila was unequivocal. Leaving that Matt spluttering.

Go Lucy! She was very articulate and really got the message home. Shelagh definitely gets it too.

Shelagh

Sorry just one thing...

In these discussions the question "what is a woman comes up".

That's fine - but I'd like to see more of the question "what is a trans woman?".

I believe far too many people are still under the impression that a TW is someone who has fully transitioned.

There needs to be absolute clarity that this is not the case.

That most TW retain their Male genitals.

That under Stonewall definition a TW is simply put, anyone who says they are and this would be true under Self ID.

That it's not transphobic to know that some men can, have and will use the "cloak" of womanhood to invade women's spaces for predatory sexual purposes.

That not all TW suffer from gender dysphoria. AGP is still the elephant in the room.

Finally this argument about being born in the wrong body....

No - everyone is born in the body they were meant to have. If a TW has been born female they wouldn't be the same person.

It's ironic that every time this phrase is used TRA's and allies are actually themselves denying the existence of TW when you think through the logic.

My body isn't wrong because I'm not tall enough to play professional basketball - I wouldn't be "me" if it was. It's don't get to identify out of that fact any more than someone born with a congenital issue.

The body, the biology isn't wrong - it's our response to it sometimes is.

@DeRigueurMortis yes I think you’re right.

What is a TW is the question to ask.

In the way that a man is separate to a woman, biologically and experientially, so is a transwoman.

Oh joy! Oh the joy, to hear this on mainstream radio, from the presenter, stated as the absolutely undeniable, objectively true fact that it is.

Like a rush of blood to the head indeed, niceberg!

Applause to Lucy Masood and Shelagh Fogarty. Rotten tomatoes for the wokey blokey male supremacist. Puuuuuuuuuullllll!

Thanks Cwenthryth for the heads up and frazzled1 for the link.

Just listened. Go Shelagh! Go Lucy!

The dam is breaking. People are speaking up!

I also follow @mrianleslie on Twitter. He is an author and communications guy. V smart and engaged. Retweets Helen Joyce and now increasingly calling out the BS. Worth a follow.

what talkingtoLangCleginthedark said

Lucy - you are a legend. That was excellent. Thanks for bringing that to our attention OP.

Outstanding. Love Lucy. Love Shelagh.

I do think that was refreshing - to hear two women against wokebloke.

And poor Matt was completed terfed out by the always wonderful Lucy and Shelagh

Great stuff.

'The Labour Party was founded to defend marginalised groups.'

No. The Labour Party was founded by the Trade Union movement to represent the interests of working men ('working people' would be stretching it) in parliament now that many of them (working men) had the vote.

Absolutely correct! Labour has been kidnapped by the woke, and I want them back!

People seriously seem to have forgotten labour's roots, and it was rooted in main MC studenty identitarian blue hairs, all vying to have the most unusual/latest gender identity.

Come on Labour - you need to listen to this. Listen to Blair - the only labour PM to have been elected in the past, what, 40yrs? You can't do anything if you're not elected, and you can do anything if you're not an effective opposition.

Great that Shelagh said TW are separate. It is essential to have these discussions to not accept that TWAW. The male caller here kept agreeing with the points about separate spaces but then saying TWAW. His challenge that there are different types and experiences of women has to be countered that TW are a category of men and their issues are different types of male experiences. Every discussion crashes on these rocks if it is accepted that TWAW.

The woke bloke also said that Woman's Place believed that no child is born in the wrong body. This was his example of hate speech.
They are so far up their own arse that they can state this as a fact.

Little things, but I love the fact that Lucy was allowed the final word, that literally never happens.

Excellent Lucy!

The clip is up on the LBC website (& app) now

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/shelagh-fogarty/womens-place-uk-hits-back-after-labour-transphobia/

That was a complete joy to hear after all the years of women being shut down. It's starting to feel the tide is turning.

Actually that’s only a snippet on that video, there was way more than that

Lucy was magnificent. Shelagh totally gets it.

There's not time to pick up on everything but it was a shame the 'born in the wrong body' point could not have been developed.

That point, together with (as deriguer mentioned) examining what a transwoman is, are the two things that the public needs to understand.

The word Transwoman - with or without the bloody space - is problematic as it makes the uninformed listener think a transwoman is a type of woman rather than a type of man.

And before the complaints rain in and the mods kick in on that last sentence, many TW would agree with it.

Deletions seem to have been quiet the last few days. Maybe even our elders and betters who like to monitor us have been stunned into silence by the utter shitshow of the Labour ladies these last few days.

Omg Lucy Masoud was a queen!
That Matt dude (I'm assuming he was a male who identified as a male, so hard to tell on the radio) got himself OWNED.
And more to the point he just blustered and waffled and nowt he said made sense!
"Oh, we, um, of course cis women should be able to have spaces but not by denying tw are women.."
So, no single sex spaces then? So nice to have that decided for us BY A MAN (again I'm assuming please don't delete me)
And the nerve of him referencing support services, like refuges, and implying that women are trying to prevent TW from accessing help.
I've said it before but it bears repeating,
Matt if you're reading:
Women's refuges and rape crisis didn't just fall from the sky. The government in the 70s didn't just decide to hand over a wad of cash to keep these places going.
They were created from the ground up BY WOMEN FOR WOMEN
If TW want such services I'm sure women will help them set them up (we're good like that) but no type of male however they identify should access the ones we have.
Especially as, if self Id, is allowed, ANY abusive man could legally follow his victim into the refuge, so they are no longer a safe place. That is the logical outcome, and it's so obvious when you hear how clear Lucy Masoud is and how waffly the guy is, that the self id position makes no sense.

I'd love to hear Lucy Masoud's voice more in this debate. She'd have been great on the Moral Maze, for example, because she's so clear and unapologetic.