Shaking after explaining why I couldn’t vote Lib Dem to a canvasser

[moggiemonster]

Not entirely sure what advice I am after. I have been lurking on this board and commenting infrequently. Have local elections coming up (we are a very blue area) and Lib Dem male canvassers knocked. Politely told him I could not support the candidate and was asked why. Explained about changes to GRA, self-I’d and spousal ‘veto’. He was very polite, very incredulous that this was sole reaction I couldn’t support them even on a local level.

I was actually shaking as I spoke to him. Was so worried I would be seen as a bigot and was made to feel that actually self-id wasn’t a big deal. Probably felt vulnerable as was discussing on my doorstep. Would it have been better just to have shut the door?

How do I get my view across without being made to fell stupid and a bigot? I am all for accepting those who go through the process but not the idea of there being no distinction between the sexes so no boundaries.

Sorry, I feel very isolated with this topic, friends ignore it or tell me I should be accepting as there are no need for different categories based on sex. My family just think I am over-reacting.

Doubt I will see hide or hair of Labour canvassers.

Well it's an emotional topic which has enormous repercussions for the safety of women and children. It's very difficult, and very brave, to talk about something like this to someone who cant or wont hear you. So many people just dont give a shit about women - really, truly do not care - and that is a very hard thing to stay calm about.

Well done for speaking up. I think a lot of us are sick to the back teeth of being nice, making room, not making a fuss, and we stand with you

Did you have any sense at all that you opened the Lib Dem bloke's eyes to the madness?

If he was surprised maybe it was his first day on the job. Hopefully he will hear it often enough from the horses mouth to begin to realise who is saying this and who is saying the other side.

Lib dem, Green and Labour TRA-siders are forceful but few. This issue just doesn't resonate for most party activists - if it has hit their radar it's usually nothing more than 'be kind to all minorities, especially LGBTQ'

The hardcore faithful truly believe not just that they dont want TERF votes or TRF party members, but they would like to see TERFs dead. Honestly.

I think Labour's current situation with that trans pledge is making 'ordinary' doorstep knockers question the ideology. So while it may have been really unpleasant for you, do consider that these responses do get fed back and accumulate.

Doesn't always change the policy, but it can help shed sunlight, especially if you communicate that you would otherwise have supported them, or indeed have in the past.

Well done! It's actions like these that will make a difference in the end. It is scary that just speaking common sense can be so frightening, but the fact that you've done it might also inspire someone else on here to speak up too.

Well done. My MP is full on TWAW, I don't think I could have a rational discussion with her, as I'm so beyond being kind
My rights are not hers to give away

Well done! I live for the day one of them turns up on my doorstep. But they never do

Well done.

Sometimes a good tactic in such situations is to ask questions instead of laying ones own cards on the table.

So for example - "I understand the Lib Dems support gender self ID. My daughter is an athlete - does your policy mean male born athletes will be able to compete against her if they identify as female?" "Do you personally think this is fair?"

Etc etc

Well done, it's hard because women are socialised to be non-confrontational. But you will have given him pause for thought x

No party has a right to your vote, they have to earn your support. It's not for you to justify yourself to them. If it's a concern to you then it's a concern for you; they can't tell you what's important and what's not.

friends ignore and tell me I should be more accepting

What is tolerant, understanding and 'accepting' about ignoring you and not allowing you your own opinion?

The hypocrisy of the joke called Woke.

I met a “but trans women ARE women” repeating robot at a party the other day. To all my questions she just repeated that statement in a kind of wide eyed why are you being so nasty tone of voice. It made me so cross I too shook with rage and incredulity.

You just need to channel your inner toddler

How?
But how?
Please explain - how?
But why?
How?
You aren’t telling me right!

Congratulations! The first time is the hardest.

Yesterday I told Barbara Keeley MP that penises don’t belong in women’s prisons and now I want to shout it from the roof tops.

Who cares if he thinks you are a bigot? If he does, he must be a non-rational unthinking misogynist and not at all liberal.

Not a bigot though. When did black become white, up became down...?

The recent political changes and Harry Miller winning his case have both made it so much easier to speak out, but it's still scary. Well done for actually speaking up to a stranger - I've only been brave enough to broach the subject with a small number of friends and using anonymous online accounts.

Well done! It's actions like these that will make a difference in the end. It is scary that just speaking common sense can be so frightening, but the fact that you've done it might also inspire someone else on here to speak up too

Totally right.

Well done. It’s important that they know this matters to voters.

Also: next time ask him to listen to Jo Swinson's lamentable interview on the Today programme if he wants to understand why this is such a disaster of a policy for the Lib Dems to adopt.

That was brave. Shouldn't be, but is. I'm admiring, because until they start to understand that people do care, but are scared to say so, they won't understand that their views are extremist.

Was so worried I would be seen as a bigot and was made to feel that actually self-id wasn’t a big deal.

I love the male canvasser not understanding why a woman isn't keen on a policy that erases us as an identifiable sex class altogether, and removes our right to male free spaces of any kind, anywhere. Bless his heart. Why do the silly wimmins care about the silly wimmins? Aren't there much more important man's things to be focused on?

Self ID isn't a big deal.... for men!

I confronted my local MP at her surgery a while back. She is full on TWAW and gave the example of another constituent who was transgender and found the hostility unbearable. I kept calm.

However, she then quoted the questionable trans suicide statistics and I burst forth from my shell. Suicide and attempted suicide are no strangers to me and I made my views on the unreliability of these figures and my personal experiences very emotionally. My MP sat there stunned (probably with embarrassment at my behaviour). However, her note taking assistant immediately agreed and sympathised with me.

Would I do it again? Yes, definitely. I live in a marginal constituency and if the outlook for women and children does not improve before then, I shall be attending her surgery with all guns blazing. At the very least I can make her feel uncomfortable again and less smug.

But do you feel better for stating your position Moggie?

I told two canvassers before the election. One was the Tory candidate and she totally had this topic covered as she had teen daughters so was well read.

The other was the local councillor canvassing for libdems. As a well experienced man (and he comes across as sensible in local council) he actually agreed too, particularly about the fact that it was women's representation that was effected (ie. no extra places made available to women) such as Pip Bunce. And he told me that he felt that the leadership had taken a stance that was not really that representative of the membership.

Some of the candidates apparently have said that no-one raises it with them. I am quite sure though, if the labour points of view were as apparent and in the news before the election, there would have been many more discussions about this topic on doorsteps.

It ended up being quite a positive thing in those cases. I am sure that there are negative instances, but I hope that you have the confidence now (like I did) to keep on talking.

Well done. The suicide stats have to be met head on. Make them prove it. We will get nowhere whilst they hide behind this. Show them for the liars they are. After the shock people will begin to realise they are being manipulated and I don't think they'll take kindly to it.

Well done, OP. I'm not surprised you found this difficult. A Labour Party canvassers knocked on my door the evening of the GE to ask if I had voted Labour (as in the past). I said I hadn't and he asked me why. I found I was shaking (more from anger than anything else) as I told him I couldn't vote for any party that wanted to destroy my sex-based rights. He looked very sheepish as he tried to escape but promised to feed it back to the party. In the event his candidate lost the seat by a very large majority to the Tories so I hope heed is being paid.

Well done and hugs! It's bloody horrible isn't it. I got called transphobic today over the rapist/women's prisons thing. I absolutely admire anyone who can keep on having these conversation, because I feel broken today after just one event :(

I raised it with a canvasser before the general election. I don't think he'd ever heard of self-ID or possibly even transgenderism.

His response was that it 'sounded complicated', 'wasn't his area', 'I think we all need to agree to live and let live.'

He did stop and think a bit when I said that though I was sure he was a nice chap, I didn't want to share a changing room with him...
--'Oh, no no, I'd find that very embarrassing too'
...even if he announced that he was a woman
'Well, no, but '
...or anyone else I could tell was a male identifying as female
'No, well, perhaps not'
...and that's exactly what women were being asked to do
'Oh, now, I don't think it'll come to that.'

For god's sake, do they read their own manifestos?