Shaking after explaining why I couldn’t vote Lib Dem to a canvasser

[moggiemonster]

Not entirely sure what advice I am after. I have been lurking on this board and commenting infrequently. Have local elections coming up (we are a very blue area) and Lib Dem male canvassers knocked. Politely told him I could not support the candidate and was asked why. Explained about changes to GRA, self-I’d and spousal ‘veto’. He was very polite, very incredulous that this was sole reaction I couldn’t support them even on a local level.

I was actually shaking as I spoke to him. Was so worried I would be seen as a bigot and was made to feel that actually self-id wasn’t a big deal. Probably felt vulnerable as was discussing on my doorstep. Would it have been better just to have shut the door?

How do I get my view across without being made to fell stupid and a bigot? I am all for accepting those who go through the process but not the idea of there being no distinction between the sexes so no boundaries.

Sorry, I feel very isolated with this topic, friends ignore it or tell me I should be accepting as there are no need for different categories based on sex. My family just think I am over-reacting.

Doubt I will see hide or hair of Labour canvassers.

Thanks everyone for the positive response, I wasn’t sure what to expect. Yes, I do feel better for saying my piece, politely but with force. I was amused when he asked if I was voting after I had given my pro female spiel, why yes as we’ve only had the vote for 100 years. 🧐

He did mention he had worked with people who had transition, to which I said that wasn’t the issue, these people need support, it was single sex spaces and access for female minorities was the issue. This stopped him more as I mentioned it potentially effected girls in education from hard to reach groups which aren’t religious. Locally we have a large traveller population and I am fairly confident blurring sex division would cause concern for many of them.

First time making my views known in the real world.

Well done!

You are right, we have to say,

‘we aren’t talking about trans rights, we are talking about women's’ rights, about children's rights, about gay rights, about the right to freedom of belief, the right to freedom of expression, the right to self organise and the right to appropriate representation in trade unions, in political parties and in parliament.

I’ve been in exactly the same position, OP, and was also surprised, after having the same conversation a million times online and in real life, how stressful I found it. And the guy was incredibly nice and concerned and completely got it and promised to tell the ppc/former MP to contact me (which he did, and the former MP was firmly entrenched in TWAW and be kind)

I’ve also had the same conversation with my dad, who has been an LD campaigner for decades. And his view, which he undoubtedly expressed more honestly to me than he would on a doorstep, was pretty much:

• these “social” type issues make him uncomfortable and bore him, so he leaves them to others
• he completely sees the point and of course transwomen are not women and it isn’t bigoted to say that
• he understands why women are angry, but there are more important issues such as Brexit that we need to focus on, so we should shut up and do that and not allow this distraction to take over.

He was unable to explain why he doesn’t think or isn’t telling the party leadership or the single issue activists to shut up and focus on what’s important, and why it’s women who should be the grownups. But it seemed pretty clear to me that the answer is that we are more likely to be shouted down effectively, and more likely to capitulate.

we are more likely to be shouted down effectively, and more likely to capitulate.

Se also: why schools are asking girls to accommodate male trans students but no one expects female trans students to be safe in the boys' facilities.

transwomen ARE women. Period.

I heard this the other day. I know, it’s been said a million times already.

But it’s the sheer, flat “deadness” of the claim/lie which gets me. These people are making a huge claim with absolutely zero evidence, yet I am the one supposed to prove a negative? Since when has that ever been the position? The burden of proof is on the accuser. Even if I murder someone in cold blood on prime time TV, it still has to be proven with evidence before I can be found guilty.

Like how adding the word “wedding” triples the price, adding the word “trans” immediately absolves the accuser of any requirement to use evidence to prove their argument. Clown fish are not evidence.

This is all so Upside Down.

I spoke to one of the local lib dem canvassers about these issues before the general election last December. Despite Jo Swinson making a bit of a tit of herself on self-ID all over the media at the time, he had no clue about it.
He had a harder time trying to justify the lib dem's cancel article 50 policy to another neighbour. The only policy he could really articulate was 'vote lib dem to keep the tories out'.

It sounds like you were caught on the hoof, so well done thinking on your feet. Hopefully it's not all gone over his head.

I haven't talked to anyone about this, but I have had the same physical reaction when I felt that people might see what I was saying as horrible and bigoted.

Looking at it from a step back, it's amazing how powerful that emotion is, when you think if you give your opinion on a topic the automatic assumption someone will make is that you are a complete sexist/bigot/anti-semite/transphobe - all of these terms are so powerful to us.

It's the feeling of flouting a major social taboo, you almost expect the gods to smite you, and it takes a lot to overcome that conditioning..

The self censorship is the worst part of all this, I think.

Magdalen Berns is right, what does is matter if people call you a bigot or a terf? They are just words and anyone that says that isn’t someone whose opinion we value.

The first time I raised this subject in person, around two years ago, one person, someone I considered a friend, deleted me off Facebook.

So I kept quiet for a bit.

Started to see other people raising questions and reached out to one, who added me to an online, women-only feminist discussion group. That gave me confidence to raise it in person again.

In the last 6 months everyone I have tentatively raised this with has been incredibly relieved to have the opportunity to talk about it.

Now that we’ve reached peak ‘Political leadership candidate says rapey-penis-people should pick their own prison and, well, the high price of tulips is finally being noticed.

(Reference: this excellent Twitter thread from yesterday: threadreaderapp.com/thread/1229539824031485952.html )

Well done OP. I understand the emotion, I spoke about a proposal on GRA reform at the Women’s Equality conference and actually burst into tears after - just the anger, frustration, fear, relief of verbalising things, shock of being heard and supported. I had also recently been assaulted by a transwoman (unconnected to WEP/protests etc) so was very raw emotionally on the issue anyway. But I 100% get the shaking overwhelm of having to deal with this. Thankyou for speaking up, brava

Oh, I'll happily be considered a bigot in support of the cause. Our sisters in past times endured far worse to get us where we are now. I'm not about to let all the hard fought for gains disappear in a puff of smoke

Sounds like you did well! Good work!

Biology isn’t bigotry - biology is reality... that’s what they have to deal with - which is why they have to be rude with T**F and bigot - to deflect from the reality..

I've never understood why it is such a big deal to many if you are called a bigot, TERF, whatever when you talk facts and biology. You know it's not true and that's what matters. It's just words spouted by people from the depths of their ignorance.

Shrug and move on.

I unfortunately only had the Tories knock on my door before the GE and I mentioned this to the chap , who looked as though he hadn’t heard of the issue. Sadly I missed Labour and LD.
A good tactic I find is to show people pictures of sports people such as a nice pic of the cyclist Rachel McKinnon next to 2 female competitors , or there is a nice pic of an Australian football player, Hannah Mouncey I think, vs the tiny female opposite team member. Or a pic of Karen White the prisoner. A picture speaks a thousand words.

I had a Green supporter knock on my door before the last GE (I'm in Brighton) and I told her that I wouldn't support a leader who introduces herself as a 'non man'. The canvasser was a benevolent looking elderly hippy type who stared at me angrily and blurted out 'Well Labour do it too!' Laughable as this exchange was it shook me up; years of conditioning to be polite and nice I guess.

My fear of being called a transphobe when I'm identifiable is that some people will believe it, and I work somewhere rather woke where such a label could cost me my job.

I think many of us have been conditioned over many years to consider these kids of terms about the worst possible transgression. Racist is maybe the most basic one, the rest gain a lot of their power from being associated with the same kind of sentiment.

Well done OP. It just goes to show how manipulative this all is when we are made to start from a position of being in the wring. We absolutely are not so well done for making your points, I am sure they will resonate if it's a new thing to your canvasser and he will think more on it. So well done.

My top tip is to order some fairplay for women leaflets and I always have a stack in my handbag and some by the front door so when the canvasers knocked on I was able to give them a leaflet to back up what I was saying to them which I asked them to take away and read

Wring! Wrong obvs.

Well done OP, and thank you. It does take courage but becomes easier the more you do it. And it's great when you do get a canvasser who actually agrees with our concerns.

Being nice and kind hasn't worked. In fact, it's allowed things to get much much worse for women and girls so well done, OP, for speaking up.

I did the same with the one and only canvasser on my doorstep in the general election. He was surprisingly well informed and totally GC, but he was a Tory, not LibDem. However, I would have no hesitation now in raising it quite vociferously with any canvasser who calls.

I am so over being nice and kind.

It was my local Lib Dem Facebook Page that brought all this to my attention. They are a shamefully woke group of jokers.

I’ve had zero canvassers the last few years. I’m actually now looking forward to the next lot. Bring me on, they need this door step feedback- good on your for sticking to your guns.

Bring *it on.

Have located the pdf leaflets on Fair Play For Women, thanks for that suggestion. Shall get some printed out.

I have appreciated all the positives comments and it has made me think that it is a ridiculous situation to be fearful for speaking up on the right to be treated with dignity and respect and not to be pushed aside.

Almost want another canvasser to knock on the door. 🙂